At what point is phosphate too high?

[mrpontiac80]

Hi guys I tried searching so forgive me for another phosphate question.

at what point do I need to worry about trying to reduce phosphate? My current parameters are as follows

nitrate- 19 ppm
Phosphate- .35 ppm
Salinity- 1.025
Ph -8
Alk-8.3 dkh
Cal- 420 ppm
Mag- 1500 ppm

the tank is an 65.4 AIO about 1 yr and 3 months running, mixed reef. 15 fish I feed probably too heavy. Tunze 9004 skimmer

So this past week I started giving 2 sheets of nori a day to the tank instead of 1 like I have done for months. The reason is that my foxface I believe has decided to wipe out a few different types of zoas. He has been in the tank for nearly a year and has never bothered anything till now. To hopefully prevent him from going to expensive zoas or worse yet torches or something I started feeding nori before I leave for work. This seems to have curbed the problem but now my phosphates have risen from an average of .15, up to .3+.
am I headed for trouble?

 

[CoralB]

Before all your coral melt , that being said yours I feel is too high and recommend you keep it between 0.05- .1ppm

 

[Wolf89]

I would invest in phosphate e or other lanthanum chloride solutions and use a calculator to reduce it. Imo it's significantly better (and cheaper) than other methods, plus you can be precise using known amounts

 

[mrpontiac80]

I forgot to mention, also starting this week, I started dosing microbacter7 for the heavy bio load dosage. Basically once a day for a week and the the maintenance of 1x per week. I also use Chemipure blue. Because it is an AIO tank I feel limited on how to remove phosphate. I have no reactors or anything.

 

[Miami Reef]

First things first, the phosphates at 0.30ppm will not cause any more algae than at 0.15ppm. The only thing I’d worry about is that the rate of calcification may be reduce at elevated phosphates like this.

GFO works extremely efficiently, so does lanthanum chloride. I would consider using half the recommended amount and change once phosphates stop dropping if you decide to use GFO.

I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable dosing lanthanum chloride to a tank that has clams.

 

[Wolf89]

First things first, the phosphates at 0.30ppm will not cause any more algae than at 0.15ppm. The only thing I’d worry about is that the rate of calcification may be reduce at elevated phosphates like this.

GFO works extremely efficiently, so does lanthanum chloride. I would consider using half the recommended amount and change once phosphates stop dropping if you decide to use GFO.

I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable dosing lanthanum chloride to a tank that has clams.

I have a clam and dose LaCl for what it's worth.

 

[mrpontiac80]

First things first, the phosphates at 0.30ppm will not cause any more algae than at 0.15ppm. The only thing I’d worry about is that the rate of calcification may be reduce at elevated phosphates like this.

GFO works extremely efficiently, so does lanthanum chloride. I would consider using half the recommended amount and change once phosphates stop dropping if you decide to use GFO.

I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable dosing lanthanum chloride to a tank that has clams.

I do have a clam. Can gfo be placed in a bag or should I switch to Chemipure elite? I’ve never used gfo outside of Chemipure

 

[Spare time]

There are concerns I have when phosphate or nitrate becomes high relatively to the other (and to some degree the available carbon for organisms in the tank but that I can't test for so I don't bother). There are potential problems when one is elevated and the other is very limited (based off the papers I've read), but there are also concerns of slowed down growth, and that it takes a while for all of that phosphate bound to the rock and sand to come out.

 

[Spare time]

I do have a clam. Can gfo be placed in a bag or should I switch to Chemipure elite? I’ve never used gfo outside of Chemipure

PS I have used gfo in a bag but its often recommended to mix with carbon (in a really fine mesh bag) to prevent clumping. I had an old chemipure bag that I put gfo in and would sit in a filter sock for a day if I overdosed phosphate.

 

[Justdrew]

Phosphate Rx is super easy. I run about 50 gallons total. 6 drops lowers my phosphates approx .1.

 

[mrpontiac80]

Phosphate Rx is super easy. I run about 50 gallons total. 6 drops lowers my phosphates approx .1.

I’ve seen this brand mentioned a couple of times. I’ll look into it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ve seen this brand mentioned a couple of times. I’ll look into it.

There's nothing special about the brand. It's just a brand of lanthanum chloride. There are many others that should behave similarly. Be sure you understand how to dose it and that some folks have had problems with certain organisms.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I forgot to mention, also starting this week, I started dosing microbacter7 for the heavy bio load dosage. Basically once a day for a week and the the maintenance of 1x per week.

What are you hoping that this dosing accomplishes?

 

[mrpontiac80]

What are you hoping that this dosing accomplishes?

Well my understanding was that it just helped add “ good” bacteria. So if you believe the description my thought was it might help keep nutrients in check. Or at least not hurt it. Since I already had it on hand.

 

[mrpontiac80]

There's nothing special about the brand. It's just a brand of lanthanum chloride. There are many others that should behave similarly. Be sure you understand how to dose it and that some folks have had problems with certain organisms.

Ok, I am hesitant after using vibrant in the past! I had a fallow period of 90 days and things got wacky with algae near the end. The vibrant worked great as promised but coincidentally or not my stars and such did not survive.
so I really try to justify the use of chemical additives now.

 

[oldmonk]

Since yr OP doesn't mention anything much would like to ask

Apart from skimmer what else is yr nutrient export medium?

Also apart from test readings, what else is manifesting in the tank that indicates po4 levels high?



Thanks

 

[mrpontiac80]

Since yr OP doesn't mention anything much would like to ask

Apart from skimmer what else is yr nutrient export medium?

Also apart from test readings, what else is manifesting in the tank that indicates po4 levels high?



Thanks

So as far as export, I have a Tunze 9004 skimmer, I use filter floss that a change daily or sometimes every 2 days. Underneath the filter cups I have Chemipure blue. I do a 20% water change on average about every 10-12 days.

the tank looks fine. My main concern is that in one week I have increased phosphate by .15 ppm during that same time frame doubled my feeding of nori. I figure it’s a response to the nori and I just don’t want things going out of balance if I continue to feed this way.

 

[oldmonk]

So as far as export, I have a Tunze 9004 skimmer, I use filter floss that a change daily or sometimes every 2 days. Underneath the filter cups I have Chemipure blue. I do a 20% water change on average about every 10-12 days.

the tank looks fine. My main concern is that in one week I have increased phosphate by .15 ppm during that same time frame doubled my feeding of nori. I figure it’s a response to the nori and I just don’t want things going out of balance if I continue to feed this way.

If yr nutrient import changes without any changes in the export, then yes readings may look off the charts. So if you wish to continue to feed heavy to keep the fish happy and also away from nipping at yr corals, then you will have to figure out a nutrient export method to compensate. Maybe smaller but frequent water change

If the tank looks fine, i would say keep an eye on the tank and see if anything anytime is going off. Like say PE for example.

Finally IMO, 15 fish for a 60gallon is a bit heavy stocking. Especially if majority are heavy grazers.

Thanks

 

[Spare time]

So as far as export, I have a Tunze 9004 skimmer, I use filter floss that a change daily or sometimes every 2 days. Underneath the filter cups I have Chemipure blue. I do a 20% water change on average about every 10-12 days.

the tank looks fine. My main concern is that in one week I have increased phosphate by .15 ppm during that same time frame doubled my feeding of nori. I figure it’s a response to the nori and I just don’t want things going out of balance if I continue to feed this way.

Skimmers are not great at dealing with phosphate, so you might want to look into swapping the chemipure blue with elite (or to save money, just mix rox or bituminous carbon with gfo)

 

[mrpontiac80]

If yr nutrient import changes without any changes in the export, then yes readings may look off the charts. So if you wish to continue to feed heavy to keep the fish happy and also away from nipping at yr corals, then you will have to figure out a nutrient export method to compensate. Maybe smaller but frequent water change

If the tank looks fine, i would say keep an eye on the tank and see if anything anytime is going off. Like say PE for example.

Finally IMO, 15 fish for a 60gallon is a bit heavy stocking. Especially if majority are heavy grazers.

Thanks

I agree it’s probably too many fish. I plan to upgrade very soon. My “big” fish are a foxface, purple tang and Bristletooth. The others are cardinals and dartfish and such. I will rehome the foxface if necessary but really like him until he discovered coral. I was hoping the additional nori in the morning might curb the problem