At what point is phosphate too high?

[Glenner’sreef]

So a couple of days a week, I maintain numerous tanks around the Phoenix area. Because like you at times my Phosphates are on the upswing and I have 4 large fish among 12. I feed heavy and certainly noticed higher numbers. I agree with one of the replies that the skimmer is not going to drop these numbers. Anyhow, so a bit of science here. I made it a point to test (Hanna Phos) tanks with high coralline algae growth and found out that many of them were above .50 and below .90
I had just set up my 180g a year and a half ago new Caribsea life rock. I did have a couple of pieces of live. The structures look amazing just nothing biological happening. (Trust me I’m going somewhere with this) My personal pursuit was seeing coralline take hold. The red coralline from the live rock was spreading nicely everywhere but no pinks or purple. Yes I was adding small rock etc to seed the purple ca. so I checked my phosphates (Hanna) and they were off the charts at 1.95 This was 3 months ago. Arggg!!! Lightened up on feeding, did some more frequent water changes, added Phosgaurd, and finally Phosphate Rx. I’m now sitting nicely at 0.48 and just last night discovered 7 or 8 round purple spots on my plastic return lock lines. Yay! So I still want to increase my feeding back to the way it was before without spiking my phosphates. This week I’ll be purchasing an Ice Cap Algae Scrubber. I’ve read that based on all that this extracts from the water, I can increase the food again and not have these nutrients and phosphates get a foothold. Wish you the best.

 

[CoralB]

There's nothing special about the brand. It's just a brand of lanthanum chloride. There are many others that should behave similarly. Be sure you understand how to dose it and that some folks have had problems with certain organisms.

Randy which organisms are affected and in what way ???

 

[CoralB]

Bump

 

[CoralB]

Randy which organisms are affected and in what way ???

Randy ??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have not independently verified the issues or why it happens, but a substantial number of folks report issues with tangs and clams when using lanthanum products.

 

[mrpontiac80]

So not trying to beat a dead horse but with nitrates averaging 16-20 ppm at what point should I consider my phosphate to be too high? I know there is some sort of ratio and all tanks are different but not sure when I’m in or out of an ideal ratio.

 

[CoralB]

I have not independently verified the issues or why it happens, but a substantial number of folks report issues with tangs and clams when using lanthanum products.

But have you heard of any negative effects on coral and or zooxanthellae?? And thank you for responding !!!

 

[jerl77]

I gave up testing phosphate and nitrate 6 months ago
Tank has never looked better.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So not trying to beat a dead horse but with nitrates averaging 16-20 ppm at what point should I consider my phosphate to be too high? I know there is some sort of ratio and all tanks are different but not sure when I’m in or out of an ideal ratio.

I recommend 2-10 ppm nitrate and 0.02-0.1 ppm phosphate.

So regardless of nitrate level, I consider above 0.1 ppm to be suboptimal.

But tanks can still thrive and be considered great tanks at higher levels of nitrate and phosphate. .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

But have you heard of any negative effects on coral and or zooxanthellae?? And thank you for responding !!!

I do not recall seeing reports of anything other than clams and tangs, but I might not remember it.

 

[mrpontiac80]

I recommend 2-10 ppm nitrate and 0.02-0.1 ppm phosphate.

So regardless of nitrate level, I consider above 0.1 ppm to be suboptimal.

But tanks can still thrive and be considered great tanks at higher levels of nitrate and phosphate. .

Thank you so much, I was reading some stuff Jake Adams wrote last night and he mentioned the same ranges. I really appreciate all you guys sharing your experience!

 

[Apotack]

Thank you so much, I was reading some stuff Jake Adams wrote last night and he mentioned the same ranges. I really appreciate all you guys sharing your experience!

Love theTA

 

[Piscean_Introvert]

Right now my tank is at .19 phosphate and around 20-30 nitrate, I’m running reeflux so I can’t do much but limit feeding. But I use the below product before I started the reeflux to bring my phosphates down from .74 to .05 in a matter of days with no negative affects to coral or fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Right now my tank is at .19 phosphate and around 20-30 nitrate, I’m running reeflux so I can’t do much but limit feeding. But I use the below product before I started the reeflux to bring my phosphates down from .74 to .05 in a matter of days with no negative affects to coral or fish.

Aluminum based binders like Phosguard work OK, but my concern has been the potential for aluminum release, which historically has been known to impact leather corals first. If you see leather corals close up, that may be why. Be sure to rinse it well before use.

 

[mrpontiac80]

So not too long ago, I posted about Red Sea’s Nopox.
Thread 'Can I use Nopox?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-i-use-nopox.913677/

If I decide to go this route, I am currently using a Chemipure blue and a Chemipure elite. Each one is recommended for half my water volume of 65 gallons, because I have an all in one tank. So I am using one on each side of the rear sump under my filter cups. Having said that, would I need to remove one or both since they claim to use a gfo?

 

[KenO]

So a couple of days a week, I maintain numerous tanks around the Phoenix area. Because like you at times my Phosphates are on the upswing and I have 4 large fish among 12. I feed heavy and certainly noticed higher numbers. I agree with one of the replies that the skimmer is not going to drop these numbers. Anyhow, so a bit of science here. I made it a point to test (Hanna Phos) tanks with high coralline algae growth and found out that many of them were above .50 and below .90
I had just set up my 180g a year and a half ago new Caribsea life rock. I did have a couple of pieces of live. The structures look amazing just nothing biological happening. (Trust me I’m going somewhere with this) My personal pursuit was seeing coralline take hold. The red coralline from the live rock was spreading nicely everywhere but no pinks or purple. Yes I was adding small rock etc to seed the purple ca. so I checked my phosphates (Hanna) and they were off the charts at 1.95 This was 3 months ago. Arggg!!! Lightened up on feeding, did some more frequent water changes, added Phosgaurd, and finally Phosphate Rx. I’m now sitting nicely at 0.48 and just last night discovered 7 or 8 round purple spots on my plastic return lock lines. Yay! So I still want to increase my feeding back to the way it was before without spiking my phosphates. This week I’ll be purchasing an Ice Cap Algae Scrubber. I’ve read that based on all that this extracts from the water, I can increase the food again and not have these nutrients and phosphates get a foothold. Wish you the best.

I've used and continue to use ATS's. I've found that they help with nitrates, but I've seen little impact on phosphates. I drip LC into my skimmer for phosphate control and a sulfur denitrator for nitrate control in addition to my ATS device. The LC and denitrator allow me to dial in the PO4 and NO3 to any level I want. I currently run 0.1ppm PO4 and 12-13ppm NO3.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So not too long ago, I posted about Red Sea’s Nopox.
Thread 'Can I use Nopox?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-i-use-nopox.913677/

If I decide to go this route, I am currently using a Chemipure blue and a Chemipure elite. Each one is recommended for half my water volume of 65 gallons, because I have an all in one tank. So I am using one on each side of the rear sump under my filter cups. Having said that, would I need to remove one or both since they claim to use a gfo?

No, using GFO is pretty common with folks using organic carbon dosing. I used both together.

 

[Tamberav]

FYI. They make small rectors that go in AIOs that you could put your gfo in.

 

[hans4811]

Phosphate Rx is super easy. I run about 50 gallons total. 6 drops lowers my phosphates approx .1.

Ditto here…got the idea from Melevs reef video. He’s been using it for decades he says. I use about 4 drops maybe twice a week. Drops phosphates about 0.07 in a 70gal total system. Mine are around 0.07 - 0.10 in a SPS dominant system. Ez peezy…