ATI Dimmable VS Non-Dimmable?

[ThePriceSeliger]

You actually waste 50 hours on each bulb in your garage?
If that is the case any cheap t5 fixture would do the trick I thought? For me, I just use the dimmable like the non dim fixture. I have an option down the road.....However due to different bulbs being replaced different time, i might not bother the dimmable feature.

My bulbs never get up to 100%, if I were to run 100% over my tank for 50 hours I would burn everything. And I wouldn't call it a waste, just the cost of doing business. If I don't, I run the risk of flickering bulbs and drastically shortened life.

 

[Sabellafella]

The burn in doesnt matter as long as the lights are run for 50 hours before dimming , you could burn the bulbs in at any percentage, at any time aslong as you dont ramp the dimming, when i change my bulbs for the regular sunpower i change one at a time over the coarse of 2 months, the dimmable i raise 5 inches and change each channel nd maunually run them at 100 percent untill the break in periods over, good enuff for me 3 times every 2 years

 

[ngvu1]

; I like how you put it....Everything can be considered as "cost of doing business" I guess! I just never thought of it that way LOL.
I remember I posted a question about what to do with the RO/DI waste because I was about to fill 100 gallon tank; I do not have room to hold 200-300 gallons of RO/DI waste for later usage. It could have been simple as "cost of doing business" right?

My bulbs never get up to 100%, if I were to run 100% over my tank for 50 hours I would burn everything. And I wouldn't call it a waste, just the cost of doing business. If I don't, I run the risk of flickering bulbs and drastically shortened life.

 

[samba_dad]

Where can I buy these T5 retro units - dim able or not?

 

[ngvu1]

Personally and seriously, I think they should have added the feature to make the dimmable fixtures run like a non-dimmable fixtures as the T5 bulbs REQUIRES the "burn-in" process.

 

[dochow]

Here are some pictures of my tank with the LEDs in with the T fives. First picture is LED second picture is T5

What's the time frame between those two pictures?? Do you have both T5 and LED going at same time for the more blue pic??

 

[dzel]

How does this combination look for an 8x24 for sps?

3 - ATI Blue +
3 - ATI Coral +
1 - ATI Purple +
1 - ATI True Actinic 03

Or should I just go with:

4 - ATI Blue +
4 - ATI Coral +

 

[Brett]

I was planning to do this exact schedule with my dimmable ATI fixture and I found out I could/can NOT. :-( ; I also wanted to do light on from 4pm to 2am, but because the last setting has to be before midnight (23:59), I had to subtract 2 hours from the actual time. I should have gotten the non-dimmable fixture

You should be able to do that schedule --at least on my dimmable ATI I think you can. Here's how. Yes, clock only goes to 23:59, but just add another point, make sure you have it on at 23:59 and then the next point at 02:00 would be off...My ATI unit has 10 points, so the schedule above you are trying replicate would only require 7 points. Should work. HTH

 

[Brett]

Who said non dimmable is better than dimmable. That is wrong.

The dimmable has one power cord.

You dont need an additional or an extra timer or another controller like apex to run.

You.can run any light cycle at any percentage you want.

You can ram up or down on the light intensity...etc.
If your tank is too shadow, you dont have to run them at 100%, run it lower .

Those that already have a controller like apex, you can save a little money by going with the non dimmable since you have to use your controller on your tank anyway but you can only turn on or off with apex. The dimmable has a build in controller it allows you to do more than just on and off.


The advantage of the non dimmable is less expensive. And if you use with a controller like apex, you can turn on or off when you are away (but how many times you have to do this).

So in the end, the dimmable is a better option if cash budget is allowed.

+1.... having the dimming feature is really nice. And if the price was the same for both units, then hands down I'd buy the dimmable unit. (i own the dimmable). My dimmable unit is over my frag tank.

Since I also own radions it was never a question as to which unit I was going to buy, since I loved the dimming capability of the radions.

Over my display tank, I am running non-dimmable retro fit T5's with Radions (Controlled via an Apex). When I added the supplement T5's to my radions over my display, I started seeing better growth and in a couple of SPS I am seeing better color. But I am running gen 1 radions. So now I am thinking about getting the ATI power module because I love the ability to modify color and create a sunset/sunrise effect that the radions provide, and I personally think my corals are doing better with T5s.

Because the lighting systems have gotten so flexible and have so many lighting options, it seems to me many aquarist are constantly changing their settings (tweaking) which then causes problems with their corals. My radions did fine for my SPS, but I set them and didn't change anything until I added the supplmental T5's. Seeing what the T5s did for my DT, I decided T5's would be the best choice for my frag system. That's why I bought the dimmable unit for my frag tank.

HTH.

 

[ngvu1]

I am trying to avoid the dimming as I do not want to burn in the new bulbs then go back and reprogram after 50 hours. It gets really confusing after a while as I replace 1 or 2 bulbs at a time only. (Think about it !)

About the programming part, I have not tried the last setting after 23:59. I follow the maker of the fixture's advice.

And because I am not dimming the bulbs, I can not do 0-2-4-6-4-2-0 bulbs on settings like the other person with the non dimmable fixture. Each on/off pair requires 4 settings. Please correct me this part if I am wrong. I tried this

Thanks for responding

You should be able to do that schedule --at least on my dimmable ATI I think you can. Here's how. Yes, clock only goes to 23:59, but just add another point, make sure you have it on at 23:59 and then the next point at 02:00 would be off...My ATI unit has 10 points, so the schedule above you are trying replicate would only require 7 points. Should work. HTH

 

[gus6464]

I create the morning, noon and sunset effect using the non dimmable 6 bulb ati in this way:
1. 2 lights on
2. 2 lights off, 4 lights on.
3. 2 lights On + 4 lights On.
4. 2 lights Off , 4 lights On.
5. 2 lights on, 4 lights off.
6. 2 lights off.
When any lights on, then ati fan on.
I do it via 3 ports of apex. But can also be easily done via simple timers.

You are killing the bulbs on the 2 light plug over twice as fast as the rest turning them on and off 3x in one day.

 

[smh254]

What's the time frame between those two pictures?? Do you have both T5 and LED going at same time for the more blue pic??

There is about 7 months between the 2 pic give or take. Just running T5 right now. The pic with T5 was taking at night when the lights are dimming down and there is more blue. Here is another pic under T5.

 

[ngvu1]

Only rapid turning on/off causes that. We are talking about turning on and leave them on for 1 hour at least, then turn them off for 1 hour at least....They last longer this way I would think as heat dissipation helps

You are killing the bulbs on the 2 light plug over twice as fast as the rest turning them on and off 3x in one day.

 

[gus6464]

Only rapid turning on/off causes that. We are talking about turning on and leave them on for 1 hour at least, then turn them off for 1 hour at least....They last longer this way I would think as heat dissipation helps

That's not how T5 works. Every time you turn on a bulb you reduce it's life. Now depending on the ballast it will reduce the life even further.

Rapid start and instant start are the worst for our uses because they run a massive amount of voltage to quickly light the cathode and start the lamp.

Program start sends a minor voltage to the cathode to warm it up and then it applies voltage to the rest of the lamp to ignite.

A program start ballast will increase the life of a bulb by 50% by doing the warm start but at the end of the day the process of turning on a bulb is what is detrimental to it's total life span. A cathode can only be ignited a certain number of times before it fails. As the cathode degrades more and more spectrum shift occurs on the bulb.

 

[ngvu1]

That's not how T5 works. Every time you turn on a bulb you reduce it's life. Now depending on the ballast it will reduce the life even further.
Rapid start and instant start are the worst for our uses because they run a massive amount of voltage to quickly light the cathode and start the lamp.

Most of us or at least me would agree with you on this

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1. Program start sends a minor voltage to the cathode to warm it up and then it applies voltage to the rest of the lamp to ignite.

2. A program start ballast will increase the life of a bulb by 50% by doing the warm start but at the end of the day the process of turning on a bulb is what is detrimental to it's total life span.

Do you have data to back this up? I am interested in learning this. Is this how the dimmable fixture power up the lamps? I am not aware you can ignite the T5 with lower voltage! However, I could be wrong.

A cathode can only be ignited a certain number of times before it fails. As the cathode degrades more and more spectrum shift occurs on the bulb.

I really never had a t5 bulb failed. I switch them out way before their lives end I think. I do 4 hours a day and change them about 9-12 months.
I

 

[gus6464]

Most of us or at least me would agree with you on this

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Do you have data to back this up? I am interested in learning this. Is this how the dimmable fixture power up the lamps? I am not aware you can ignite the T5 with lower voltage! However, I could be wrong.


I really never had a t5 bulb failed. I switch them out way before their lives end I think. I do 4 hours a day and change them about 9-12 months.
I

http://unvlt.com/literature/literat...-the-new-way-to-start-a-fluorescent-lamp.html

Rapid Start
Rapid start ballasts ignite lamps by providing cathode voltage (heat) and voltage across the lamp simultaneously. As the cathodes heat, the voltage required to ignite the lamp is reduced. At some time after both voltages are applied, the cathodes reach a temperature sufficient for the applied voltage to ignite the lamps. During this starting scenario, voltage across the lamps creates a glow current that damages the lamp by sputtering off the cathode’s emissive material. The sputtering results in end blackening and a reduction in lamp life. After all of this material is depleted from the cathode, the lamp ultimately fails.

Instant Start
Instant start ballasts ignite lamps by applying a significant voltage across the lamp during starting. However, no cathode heating is applied before or after the lamps are ignited. The high voltage applied across the lamps typically ignites them within 50 milliseconds. Since the cathodes are not heated with instant start ballasts, emissive material is also released during this type of scenario.

Programmed Start
Programmed start ballasts incorporate a precise starting scenario which breaks the process into unique and well defined steps that eliminate the pitfalls of the other starting methods.

The first step in the series is the application of cathode heat. While this heat is being applied (preheat interval), voltage across the lamp is reduced to a level that reduces damaging glow current. Glow current is actual lamp current that flows during this preheat interval and causes end blackening and degradation in lamp life. It is important during this step that sufficient voltage is applied to the cathodes for a long enough duration so the cathode’s temperature is at least 700°C. The duration of this step is pre-programmed into the ballast circuitry. Since the lamp voltage is kept very low, the lamps cannot ignite until the cathodes are heated to optimal temperature and the ballast program moves to the second step.

The second step of the starting process is the application of lamp voltage. After the programmed time of step one has been reached, a voltage is applied across the lamps, igniting them with minimal loss of the emissive material. Minimal loss of the emissive material equates to gentle treatment of and prolonged life for the lamp.

Since most reefers replace their T5 bulbs once a year we do not have to worry about complete cathode failure. What we have to worry about is spectrum shift as the cathode degrades.

 

[ngvu1]

Thanks a lot for the link. I learn something today

http://unvlt.com/literature/literat...-the-new-way-to-start-a-fluorescent-lamp.html

 

[ReeferCub]

You are killing the bulbs on the 2 light plug over twice as fast as the rest turning them on and off 3x in one day.

I don't think turning a bulb three times a day kills the bulb faster. Do you have access to any research or statistics that says turning on a bulb 3 times a day kills it significantly faster compared to turning it on once a day? I would be interested to read it. But i do understand that if the number is significantly higher compared to 3, then the life span of the bulb will be affected.
Also electronic ballasts greatly reduces the impact of on-off cycles. Not sure if ati uses them. I have not opened the casings.
Most importantly t5 bulbs should be changed every 6-8 months. So a reefer will change the bulbs long before it actually dies.

 

[gus6464]

I don't think turning a bulb three times a day kills the bulb faster. Do you have access to any research or statistics that says turning on a bulb 3 times a day kills it significantly faster compared to turning it on once a day? I would be interested to read it. But i do understand that if the number is significantly higher compared to 3, then the life span of the bulb will be affected.
Also electronic ballasts greatly reduces the impact of on-off cycles. Not sure if ati uses them. I have not opened the casings.
Most importantly t5 bulbs should be changed every 6-8 months. So a reefer will change the bulbs long before it actually dies.

All modern T5 ballasts are electronic. That is not what differentiates them. What differentiates them is the kind of starting procedure they use.

Rapid start
Programmed start
Instant start

ATI uses programmed start ballasts. As I explained earlier the cathode in a bulb has a finite amount times it can strike on. That is irrelevant to our application as we usually replace bulbs once a year. What is relevant is the spectrum shift that occurs when the cathode starts to degrade from too many on strikes.

 

[ReeferCub]

All modern T5 ballasts are electronic. That is not what differentiates them. What differentiates them is the kind of starting procedure they use.

Rapid start
Programmed start
Instant start

ATI uses programmed start ballasts. As I explained earlier the cathode in a bulb has a finite amount times it can strike on. That is irrelevant to our application as we usually replace bulbs once a year. What is relevant is the spectrum shift that occurs when the cathode starts to degrade from too many on strikes.

After how many strikes does this spectrum shift occurs? Is it gradual? If so, after how many strikes is the shift significant enough to affect our corals? Is it a visible change? Sorry for asking so many things.