ATI Essentials while Triton out of stock?

aaron186 · Aug 1, 2018

I have a new reefer 350 that just finished it's cycle. I purchased an aftermarket triton style sump for the tank. I had planned to run triton, but given that it has been out of stock for longer than my tank has existed, I think I need a plan B. I purchased a bigger reefer knowing that I would not have space for large volume water changes (I can do a 5 gal bucket once a week but prefer no to), and that was the primary attraction to triton method for me. Now my tank has no mechanical filtration, and no reactors. I came across the ATI Essentials method and it seems similar to Triton. Would this be a good alternative to Triton? My tank is ~75 gal with an 18 gal fuge running a kessel H160, nyos 120 skimmer, and octo varios return with 2 hydra 26's on an apex with dual dos. I prefer not to purchase additional equipment but would be open to carbo/gfo reactor if needed. Would ATI Essentials work well in this case and allow me to do limited water changes?

mcarroll · Aug 2, 2018

aaron186 said:
limited water changes?

What are you hoping to get out of limited water changes? What is the goal? (Laziness? Coral growth? Shiny teeth?

)

Seriously, knowing the answer to that will help decide.

The fact that it's a brand new tank should mean you have plenty of time to think about this, right?

KJAG · Aug 2, 2018

With the advent of Triton and some of the documented success with that method, I think it’s a valid question. Of which I can’t offer advice as I don’t run Triton or ATI supplements. With that said, perhaps a response should be left to those with an actual answer to his question.

rockskimmerflow · Aug 2, 2018

I permanently switched to ATI Essentials after having it up to you know what with Triton's business shortcomings. So far good results with ATI and still only doing small water removals just to eliminate detritus in tanks (often less than 5% changes)

CMO · Aug 2, 2018

Yes it would. The two systems (ATI / Triton) are very similar from what I understand, and if Triton doesn't fix the supply issues soon I'll be switching to ATI as well. I started Triton from day one on a new tank 7 months ago and have done zero water changes except one post initial cycle. Water parameters have stayed perfect per ICP tests. Building a tank to reduce maintenance (water changes etc.) shouldn't be seen as lazy IMO. This is the most stable tank I've had with the least amount of maintenance. Go for it...

Acamp · Aug 2, 2018

I’m using ATI since more than one year.
I just have zeo reactor paired with the ATI management tank as I’m using zeovit base protocol since the beginning of my reef tank 4 years ago.
I’m doing 5% water change every month/ month and half just because I have sand bed to keep clean.
My tank is about 120G.

mcarroll · Aug 2, 2018

CMO said:
Building a tank to reduce maintenance (water changes etc.) shouldn't be seen as lazy IMO.

Maybe lazy shouldn't be seen as derogatory? Please and thank you.

mcarroll · Aug 2, 2018

Norcalreef · Aug 2, 2018

Following along as I’ll be switching once the last 1800ml of triton is gone. I also started with Triton and have had good results. But I’ve got way to much in livestock now to be counting on a company that can’t even figure out how to supply a product to their user. And I don’t just mean the base elements. I’ve had issues with just about every ICP test also

aaron186 · Aug 2, 2018

mcarroll said:
What are you hoping to get out of limited water changes? What is the goal? (Laziness? Coral growth? Shiny teeth? )

Seriously, knowing the answer to that will help decide.

The fact that it's a brand new tank should mean you have plenty of time to think about this, right?

I wouldn't consider my desire for zero water changes to be lazy. I live in an apartment where space is limited. I previously was left to having no larger than a 40 gal breeder because I simply didn't have the space to store and mix larger volumes of salt water. Lack of water changes allows me to focus on other aspects of reef keeping and allows me to keep a much larger tank that I previously was unable to keep. My goal is to have a thriving reef in my living room that I can enjoy. I like SPS corals and I am planning on an SPS dominant mixed reef.

And PS: my father is a dentist... my teeth shine like a ****

aaron186 · Aug 2, 2018

Acamp said:
I’m using ATI since more than one year.
I just have zeo reactor paired with the ATI management tank as I’m using zeovit base protocol since the beginning of my reef tank 4 years ago.
I’m doing 5% water change every month/ month and half just because I have sand bed to keep clean.
My tank is about 120G.

Your tank is beautiful. Do you see value in combining zeo with ATI?

My biggest concern with ATI over triton is that triton was designed for refugium only nutrient export (minus skimmer). Right now my sump is set up exactly to Triton specs. Will I have issues with nutrients if I go ATI? I know ATI recommends using alternative nutrient export methods like mechanical filtration and reactors. I have space to add a small reactor to the fuge but the skimmer and return sections are small without much space to add additional equipment and no easy way to add a filter sock. If I would have known triton was going to suck this bad, I probably would have left the stock sump in the tank (it's sold).

Acamp · Aug 2, 2018

aaron186 said:
Your tank is beautiful. Do you see value in combining zeo with ATI?

My biggest concern with ATI over triton is that triton was designed for refugium only nutrient export (minus skimmer). Right now my sump is set up exactly to Triton specs. Will I have issues with nutrients if I go ATI? I know ATI recommends using alternative nutrient export methods like mechanical filtration and reactors. I have space to add a small reactor to the fuge but the skimmer and return sections are small without much space to add additional equipment and no easy way to add a filter sock. If I would have known triton was going to suck this bad, I probably would have left the stock sump in the tank (it's sold).

Yes I use zeolite and zeovit base protocol to keep nutrients under control. Zeo reactor is not so space consuming, it could fit on refugium part of your sump. ATI IMO works fine and I’m very happy about results.

CMO · Aug 2, 2018

aaron186 said:
Your tank is beautiful. Do you see value in combining zeo with ATI?

My biggest concern with ATI over triton is that triton was designed for refugium only nutrient export (minus skimmer). Right now my sump is set up exactly to Triton specs. Will I have issues with nutrients if I go ATI? I know ATI recommends using alternative nutrient export methods like mechanical filtration and reactors. I have space to add a small reactor to the fuge but the skimmer and return sections are small without much space to add additional equipment and no easy way to add a filter sock. If I would have known triton was going to suck this bad, I probably would have left the stock sump in the tank (it's sold).

The main difference between Triton Full and Other methods is Iron and Iodine to support the cheato. So if ATI doesn't include sufficient Iron and Iodine to keep a large fuge, it would be easy enough to supplemental dose these elements. Even with an undersized fuge of about 6% on my tank, Iodine is reduced to zero quickly without supplemental dosing, and that's with running full Triton that already includes Iodine in higher quantities. I imagine as my Triton dose increases I will be able to reduce supplemental dosing, but at about 15 ml per day of core 7 currently that doesn't seem to provide sufficient Iodine for the cheato.

DesertReefT4r · Aug 2, 2018

Triton method is just a method of nutrient removeal, major and minor element dosing to keep the tank water near NSW levels ending in system that does not require regular water changes. This has been done for a long time now. As long as you are dosing cal, alk, mag, iodine, potassium to the tank and testing to ensure correct levels and you have an effectibe method of removing no3 and po4 from the water then there is no need to change water. The goal is keep the water already in the tank as perfect as possible for asmlong as possible. You dont need to buy a certain companies produces to accomplish this goal. Again testing is a must and the ICP tests aremgreat for this and I feel a real benifits for reefers over many hobby grade tests. Its funny how triton is a no to mininal wayer change system but to fix or reset any issues they tend to recommend doing large water changes. Mixing and replacing saltwater is a part of the hobby therenis just no way around it in the long run. We can however apply filteration and dosing methods to reduce the need for the weekly or monthly water change.

mcarroll · Aug 3, 2018

aaron186 said:
I wouldn't consider my desire for zero water changes to be lazy. I live in an apartment where space is limited. I previously was left to having no larger than a 40 gal breeder because I simply didn't have the space to store and mix larger volumes of salt water. Lack of water changes allows me to focus on other aspects of reef keeping and allows me to keep a much larger tank that I previously was unable to keep. My goal is to have a thriving reef in my living room that I can enjoy. I like SPS corals and I am planning on an SPS dominant mixed reef.

So are you not keeping an RODI system or any purified water on-premises now? Or if you are, how much do you have room to keep? (What about ATO??)

Laziness is what allows you to focus on other aspects, etc.

This ship may have already sailed, but what I would have recommended is to get the tank stable with standard practices like water changes and two-part or kalk and then simply reduce water changes to zero while maintaining the rest of the dosing system (two part, kalk, whatever). See how you like it like that. LOTS of nice reefs have been run this way through the years. Bigger systems in particular since water changes can literally be cost-prohibitive. It's about how my 100 Gallon system runs.

Stigigemla · Aug 3, 2018

In the tank it is only the values being important. The brand of the chemicals is totally out of interest as soon they are in the tank.
You can use any brand of the big 3 (kH, Ca, Mg) where you can make drop tests to check the values.
When we are talking about the elements we dont test at home there is a problem. If you get a Triton test result saying add 5 ml iron and 2 ml Iodine each day you cant use the same amount ATI because we dont know if they are of the same concentration.

aaron186 · Aug 3, 2018

mcarroll said:
So are you not keeping an RODI system or any purified water on-premises now? Or if you are, how much do you have room to keep? (What about ATO??)

Laziness is what allows you to focus on other aspects, etc.

This ship may have already sailed, but what I would have recommended is to get the tank stable with standard practices like water changes and two-part or kalk and then simply reduce water changes to zero while maintaining the rest of the dosing system (two part, kalk, whatever). See how you like it like that. LOTS of nice reefs have been run this way through the years. Bigger systems in particular since water changes can literally be cost-prohibitive. It's about how my 100 Gallon system runs.

I never said I didn't have an RODI unit. I just simply can't mix and store larger than a 5 gal bucket of salt water in my apartment. Theres no space for a larger trash can. I've had a tank for 5+ years. I know how to keep a reef doing standard practices. My desire is to try one of these newer methods. I wasn't asking about Triton/ATI vs standard methods. I was hoping to get opinions between the two companies and not a debate on if I should use it. Thanks for the advice though

aaron186 · Aug 3, 2018

Stigigemla said:
In the tank it is only the values being important. The brand of the chemicals is totally out of interest as soon they are in the tank.
You can use any brand of the big 3 (kH, Ca, Mg) where you can make drop tests to check the values.
When we are talking about the elements we dont test at home there is a problem. If you get a Triton test result saying add 5 ml iron and 2 ml Iodine each day you cant use the same amount ATI because we dont know if they are of the same concentration.

Yes I understand that. My question is if the chemicals in ATI are suitable for the style of sump I am running. I am using a refugium and skimmer as the only source of nutrient export as recommended by Triton - I was unsure if ATI would be a good alternative. But thank you for bringing up the point about dosing recs between brands. I was planning on using ATI ICP if I switched but I didn't think of that issue