Automated Ball Valve - Apex Controlled

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Super cool! @Tahoe61

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Very cool!

 

[Joey Merrell]

Automation is my field. I'm going to try this myself when I get my tank setup. I'll try using relays signaled from apex to control the automatic valves. It "should" work very similar to programming a plc from what I've seen so far.

 

[Apollomax]

Those are the correct valves. These have built in limit switches that trigger when a the open or close reached the correct rotation. The two cords differentiate an open or close "command." Maybe there is a better way to wire it? The schematic shows switches to change open to close...

Is there not a valve available that is either normally open or normally closed where when power is applied it energizes motor open or closed and when not it does opposite. That way your not using two spots on controller..?

 

[Joey Merrell]

Us

Is there not a valve available that is either normally open or normally closed where when power is applied it energizes motor open or closed and when not it does opposite. That way your not using two spots on controller..?

usually a automatic valve has a spring return to it's a rest state. Some do not, but the majority do. They way I read the schematic, this valve should be closed when no power is being supplied to the positioner. It looks to me like a relay through one spot on the controller would work. I'm not familiar with this particular valve, but most of what I work with operates that way.

 

[reefsquared]

Are you worried with what salt water might do to the valve

 

[MaddyP]

Automation is my field. I'm going to try this myself when I get my tank setup. I'll try using relays signaled from apex to control the automatic valves. It "should" work very similar to programming a plc from what I've seen so far.

Be sure to post a thread when you do! I work in the SoCal aerospace market, automation is gaining ground in several areas. My other thought was to use something like this in place of a check valve, programmed to close when power failed. On a battery backup system this would be much more reliable if the system needed to stop drainage from display to sump.

Is there not a valve available that is either normally open or normally closed where when power is applied it energizes motor open or closed and when not it does opposite. That way your not using two spots on controller..?

Us
usually a automatic valve has a spring return to it's a rest state. Some do not, but the majority do. They way I read the schematic, this valve should be closed when no power is being supplied to the positioner. It looks to me like a relay through one spot on the controller would work. I'm not familiar with this particular valve, but most of what I work with operates that way.

Indeed there is a valve available with spring back option, however, I like the control of leaving a valve in either position. I feel this is the primary benefit of a motorized valve. A solenoid on the other hand should be NO or NC.

Are you worried with what salt water might do to the valve

This specific valve is designed for acidic liquids, saltwater shouldn't cause any damage. In the case it does in years to come, the entire ball valve assembly is rebuildable. In this case I won't have to buy a new valve, just internal parts.

 

[MaddyP]

What do you guys think of this setup? Any benefit to running return to the top of tank instead of the bottom? I'm leaning towards this setup to reduce noise as it will be mixing the saltwater tank for a short time every hour on the half hour. I hate hearing water mixing!

And no, I'm not planning any manual ball valves, if there is an issue these tanks are small enough to drain for repairs.

 

[Sacohen]

I'm planning something similar but a series of 1/4" valves for RODI tubing.
I could find 3 way valves in 1/4, so it's it's a series of relays that will bypass various portions of the RODI system to rinse the membrane before and after the water is made.
It will be triggered by water level sensors in the storage containers.
When the container is empty it will start the process and when it is full it will stop it.

 

[MaddyP]

I'm planning something similar but a series of 1/4" valves for RODI tubing.
I could find 3 way valves in 1/4, so it's it's a series of relays that will bypass various portions of the RODI system to rinse the membrane before and after the water is made.
It will be triggered by water level sensors in the storage containers.
When the container is empty it will start the process and when it is full it will stop it.

This is a great idea! I have a solenoid to control my filling of the RODI tank based on float switches in the tank. Using a solenoid for Washing the membrane before and after is a good idea, I might need to order another solenoid!

 

[Greybeard]

AirWaterIce sells a decent quality 1/4" push fit 110vac solenoid. I've had excellent results with them.

If you were to wire an spdt relay into that circuit, you could eliminate the need for one controlled outlet, run that valve from a single virtual switch, Open/Close.

 

[Sacohen]

I haven't found a good 3 way 1/4" solenoid to divert water to different parts of the RODI.

 

[MaddyP]

AirWaterIce sells a decent quality 1/4" push fit 110vac solenoid. I've had excellent results with them.

If you were to wire an spdt relay into that circuit, you could eliminate the need for one controlled outlet, run that valve from a single virtual switch, Open/Close.

Can you explain a little further? What would activate the relay if not for an outlet?

I'm currently using a 110v solenoid, but if there is a way to wire in a relay this would help with reducing outlet clutter.

 

[MaddyP]

Us
usually a automatic valve has a spring return to it's a rest state. Some do not, but the majority do. They way I read the schematic, this valve should be closed when no power is being supplied to the positioner. It looks to me like a relay through one spot on the controller would work. I'm not familiar with this particular valve, but most of what I work with operates that way.

Could you suggest a wiring schematic for utilizing a relay? I didn't feel my wiring was the most efficient, however, my background is not in electrical engineering.

 

[Greybeard]

Can you explain a little further? What would activate the relay if not for an outlet?

A SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) relay... when energized, pole A is closed, pole B is open. When not, pole A is open, pole B is closed. So... from your controlled outlet (or better yet, a DC relay output... some controllers have one or more available) to the relay energize circuit. From a standard (always on) outlet to the relay circuit, from pole A to the 'open' circuit on your valve, from pole B to your 'close' circuit. That way, your 'always on' outlet is powering either the 'open' or 'close' circuit of your valve, depending on the switched outlet or DC relay output on the controller. Once fully open, or fully closed, the valve itself should break the circuit, based on an internal limit switch.

The only thing you'd really be saving is one controlled outlet. In my system, as I'm sure in many, controlled outlets are at a premium... we've got lots of stuff we want to control, and only a certain number of controlled outlets.

 

[MaddyP]

A SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) relay... when energized, pole A is closed, pole B is open. When not, pole A is open, pole B is closed. So... from your controlled outlet (or better yet, a DC relay output... some controllers have one or more available) to the relay energize circuit. From a standard (always on) outlet to the relay circuit, from pole A to the 'open' circuit on your valve, from pole B to your 'close' circuit. That way, your 'always on' outlet is powering either the 'open' or 'close' circuit of your valve, depending on the switched outlet or DC relay output on the controller. Once fully open, or fully closed, the valve itself should break the circuit, based on an internal limit switch.

The only thing you'd really be saving is one controlled outlet. In my system, as I'm sure in many, controlled outlets are at a premium... we've got lots of stuff we want to control, and only a certain number of controlled outlets.

Ha! This makes perfect sense! Not only will this free up an outlet, it will also simplify the Apex programming somewhat!

 

[Greybeard]

Ha! This makes perfect sense! Not only will this free up an outlet, it will also simplify the Apex programming somewhat!

Also prevents you from making a mistake on that Apex, and energizing both OPEN and CLOSE sides of the valve at the same time... that could be bad

Glad it made sense...

 

[MaddyP]

Also prevents you from making a mistake on that Apex, and energizing both OPEN and CLOSE sides of the valve at the same time... that could be bad

Glad it made sense...

This is exactly my thought. Currently the outlets are programmed with a 3 second delay to keep one from coming on before the other goes off. Relay is ordered, now to find a proper project box for this little addition...

 

[Engloid]

If I'm not mistaken, these ball valves only use electricity when it is moving. In other words, it's not normally open or normally closed. It simply stays where it was last set by the motor. A solenoid valve will consume power continuously to either stay open (NC) or stay closed (NO). I have been looking at stainless ball valves that are motorized. They can be bought a lot cheaper than these pvc valves, but I can only find them in 304. However, many manual ball valves have the mounting points so you can add the motor to the top of them.

 

[Apollomax]

Be sure to post a thread when you do! I work in the SoCal aerospace market, automation is gaining ground in several areas. My other thought was to use something like this in place of a check valve, programmed to close when power failed. On a battery backup system this would be much more reliable if the system needed to stop drainage from display to sump.



Indeed there is a valve available with spring back option, however, I like the control of leaving a valve in either position. I feel this is the primary benefit of a motorized valve. A solenoid on the other hand should be NO or NC.


This specific valve is designed for acidic liquids, saltwater shouldn't cause any damage. In the case it does in years to come, the entire ball valve assembly is rebuildable. In this case I won't have to buy a new valve, just internal parts.

I like the idea of what you're doing. I do refrigeration for a living so I lean more towards solenoid option. But now sure what would be able to hold up to salt or put bad things in tank with reaction to metal.