AWC %

[KingTriton]

Im looking into setting up an automatic water change but wanted to know what is the total percentage needed to be changed out a week. Right now Im changing 10% a week, but with daily changes wouldn't I need to change out more?

 

[Salt Creep]

well... each time you do a daily water change there is a good chance you could be taking out a portion of the water you just put in the previous day so I would think so. What is your purpose of daily water changes? replacing trace elements?

 

[KingTriton]

well... each time you do a daily water change there is a good chance you could be taking out a portion of the water you just put in the previous day so I would think so. What is your purpose of daily water changes? replacing trace elements?

Temperature reasons and Im just getting tired of hauling buckets around. I have to mix my NSW in my garage which makes the water 85+ degrees during the summer. Preforming a 10% WC just isn't possible unless... I haul the water into a brute container indoors to bring the temperature down while mixing

Are you saying why perform WCs at all?

 

[dbrewsky]

Could you just set it to do 10% once a week for maximum dilution? just because AWC can do daily or continuous water changes doesn't mean it has to right?

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

May I ask how you are setting up the automatic water change?

 

[Salt Creep]

Temperature reasons and Im just getting tired of hauling buckets around. I have to mix my NSW in my garage which makes the water 85+ degrees during the summer. Preforming a 10% WC just isn't possible unless... I haul the water into a brute container indoors to bring the temperature down while mixing

Are you saying why perform WCs at all?

ok, makes sense. I was not saying why perform WCs at all, but there are only a couple reasons I can think to do them (I do 10% bi-weekly):

1. siphon out detritus (my reason)
2. replenish trace elements and Ca/Alk

If 2 was your reason I would think it would be more cost effective to just dose. If 1 was your reason unless you have a settling cone you can't really accomplish this. IMO I just really don't see the point in daily water changes if you are not going to get a large amount of detritus out, but I did not know how big your tank was when you said 10%.

 

[KingTriton]

May I ask how you are setting up the automatic water change?

I will likely be using the Apex DOS. Since Im on the subject anyone happen to know the maximum amount the DOS can actually dose within 15-30mins?

 

[KingTriton]

Could you just set it to do 10% once a week for maximum dilution? just because AWC can do daily or continuous water changes doesn't mean it has to right?

This is what I really wanted to do, however I'm worried about the temperature in my garage impacting my tank. Your thinking more along the lines of a extended 10% WC going across a longer period to eliminate the temperature concerns? Like 10% water change being preformed over a 6 hour period? That is an interesting take on the matter. This might be another option as well.

 

[jeremy]

I use the DOS for auto water changes.
I do 3 gallons a day on approximately 200 gallon system. Then every month or so I get the gravel vac out and suck the detritus out of sand bed.
So no more bucket hauling for me.

 

[KingTriton]

1. siphon out detritus (my reason)
2. replenish trace elements and Ca/Alk

If 2 was your reason I would think it would be more cost effective to just dose. If 1 was your reason unless you have a settling cone you can't really accomplish this. IMO I just really don't see the point in daily water changes if you are not going to get a large amount of detritus out, but I did not know how big your tank was when you said 10%.

1. My plan is to siphon out the detritus manually each week through a filter sock than just dump the filtered water back into the tank

2. In regards to trace elements my biggest concern would be how would I know if I need to dose? If I do dose how would I know if Im overdosing or not. Triton would come in handy I just wonder how much tweaking is involved to get the right balance. Any experience?

 

[Salt Creep]

I do not have experience with dosing trace elements and I have not had the need to do it. I dose 2-part, but that is it. With a lot of the trace elements you just have to follow the directions and hope for the best because there aren't test kits for a lot of them (the whole don't dose what you can't test) and even if there are I'm not sure I would trust a hobby-grade test kit when I'm getting that deep into tinkering with the water chemistry. I know dosing trace elements can have it's advantages, but screwing up and overdosing possibly killing coral is something that is a real threat that I don't want to take the chance on. This is why I just do the regular water changes and trust the salt (I use IORC).

It sounds like you have a good plan to take care of both changing the water and getting detritus out. I am not familiar with the system you will be using, but I would agree that the more spread out you can make it, the more efficient it will be as you will not be pulling out some of the water that you just put in the day before.

I'll bow out now as I have nothing more to add and leave this to the people who have experience with this system.

 

[dbrewsky]

I would say even if you decided to dose trace elements, the AWC would help ensure that trace elements are not accumulating to high levels if dosing correctly. I would say a combination of both practices would be beneficial if you are seeing results.

AWC are a convenience factor, not a performance driven endeavor. So what if you have to do a extra couple gallons a week to make up for the dilution factor of a standard water change of you put $1 a week of trace elements down the drain? Overall I think that utilizing an AWC system with or without trace elements dosing combined with maintenance siphoning and general good husbandry can only help your system and better support stability as a whole.

 

[dmcoates]

I change out ~1% daily, 1.20 gallons. I have a stenner dual head 100 gpd pump in my basement area hooked up to my 40 gallon saltwater bin. I run it all using my RKE, the pump comes on 4 times daily. Since I am change small volumes 4 times a day there is no need to have the water heated to 79°. I suck water out by my filter sock and the new water comes on by my return pump.

Honestly I don't ever clean the sand bed. I run DSB w/ about 4" of sand. IMO a deep sand bed is the way to go with AWO so you don't have to worry about it.

Right now I am only running a filter sock, skimmer and biopellets- no carbon or GFO and have a hard time getting detectable No3.

I read a lot if info and basicly there is little difference in changing 1% daily or 30% per month in the No3 levels. I don't have the link now but I believe there was a good write up in Advanced Aquarist

 

[KingTriton]

I read a lot if info and basicly there is little difference in changing 1% daily or 30% per month in the No3 levels. I don't have the link now but I believe there was a good write up in Advanced Aquarist

Good to know. Im actually am having to dose NO3 as Im having the same issue with undetectable NO3.

 

[Salt Creep]

I read a lot if info and basicly there is little difference in changing 1% daily or 30% per month in the No3 levels. I don't have the link now but I believe there was a good write up in Advanced Aquarist

Looks like this might be it. Interesting article... it does look as though the graphs toward the end show monthly vs. daily water changes and the dilution from previous water changes -- whether monthly, or daily -- is pretty similar. Seems as though you would be fine sticking to your 10%, or if you really want it to match maybe bump it up to 11% and divide that so instead of 1.429% daily (10% weekly) do 1.571% daily (11% weekly), but that really just seems so minimal and not a large enough difference to worry about.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php#5

 

[JOKER]

I have mine set up now, just waiting on tank. I plan to do 5-10% daily. System will be around 200 total and I plan 1-2 gallons daily after cycle. I also plumbed a 1/2" hose so I can throw a pump in and pump water from and to tank so no more buckets hopefully. I am using the stenner dual head 100 GPD pump.

 

[butesch]

I have mine set up now, just waiting on tank. I plan to do 5-10% daily. System will be around 200 total and I plan 1-2 gallons daily after cycle. I also plumbed a 1/2" hose so I can throw a pump in and pump water from and to tank so no more buckets hopefully. I am using the stenner dual head 100 GPD pump.

10% daily would be 20 gallons per day on a 200 gallon tank?

 

[JOKER]

Yes it would. I really don't know what I was thinking. lol .5 to 1% sounds better doesn't it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could you just set it to do 10% once a week for maximum dilution? just because AWC can do daily or continuous water changes doesn't mean it has to right?

IMO, automatic water changes are substantially better than manual all at once changes for a variety of reasons (no need to match anything in the new salt water, less stress on both you and the creatures, etc.), and the decrease in effectiveness is rather small.

1% changed daily (which I do) is equivalent to one 26% change per month.

I show what 1% daily accomplishes in this article:

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

 

[svogun]

I use the DOS and do about a gallon a day. When my 30 gallon container gets low I just fill with rodi mix new salt and am gtg.