Baby tang in 29gal?

[Uncle99]

I noticed that both tangs have some fin erosion? Could this be an indication of cramped tank conditions?

I noticed similar fin erosion on a regal I had in a 6 foot 120 gallon.

Yup, well into the third year, that’s quite possible.
They went from a QT-20g, to a DT-65g for 3.5 years, now, they will live happy (hopefully) in the 180 for many years to come.

 

[Kfactor]

Everyone that is encouraging this should be ashamed. Treat a fish the same as a dog or cat they are for life

That is literally impossible only if we could take them for walks and let them run no matter what you are still putting them in a glass box

 

[tehmadreefer]

 

[Tamberav]

Not sure why this post has blown up now months after the last reply but the amount of people in this hobby who just spend their time gatekeeping on these forums is astounding.

“Abuse to keep a baby tang in a 30 gallon”

Here is my 30 gallon tang, eats a wide range of foods well, good colouration, never gasping, not pale, no diseases, no aggression, no wallriding, no hiding, fairly active.

He is around a year old now and I wouldn’t of been able to tell if he’s grown, so much for outgrowing the tank in 2 months?

Equating the actual abuse of animals to keeping a baby fish in a small aquarium temporarily is brain dead.

This seems similar to the same people mindlessly gatekeeping corals and anemones behind “mature tanks”

I guess we must have a lot of people here who studied bachelors in marine science?

I don't understand why this fish isn't growing. That doesn't seem right to me. Baby sailfin I had grew very quickly in 6 months, it was a quarter size when I got it and appears larger than yours in less time. It was catching up to the medium sized copperband very quickly.

It wasn't in a nano but a 80g which is still too small but maybe not too small for a baby tang for a year.

I think you would have to try and match two environments and put a baby sailfin in a 29g and one in a 180g and see if growth rates are different.

 

[dvgyfresh]

Every pet hobby has this dilemma , at the end of the day this is something the owner has to live with. The snake industry is ripe with this because many big name snake breeders use breeding racks for 100% of snakes life (dark box with heater) and yea the snakes don’t die but I know they are not happy, through my years (over 20) of keeping reptiles I learned that even reptiles have there way of expression also different animals have different personalities. Basically it depends, the tang could be comfortable in the 29g for a bit or it could be completely stressed out , or you could just save the headache / torment of the fish and just buy the standard agreed upon minimum tank size and even then , I’ve seen people with 1rock in a 100 gallon with no ways for the fish to hide/rest so even the minimum tank size isn’t always enough

 

[sim2142]

my sailfin put on 2+ inches in 5 months. Even will have bachelors in marine bio in less than 6 months and preparing for career in research, it does not take more than common sense to realize that a fish that can reach 12 inches does not belong in a cube tank with 20 inches lengths

back to original point there are SO many other fish for a 29 gallon!

also I think I'm going to found the @Rubberfrog fan club

As I said, when I see any signs of growth towards that size or other issues it’s transferring to a new tank

 

[Frogspon]

Isn't the whole point of captive bred fish to prevent this? I don't see a justification for buying wild caught either, if it can be avoided.

uhhh the irony is that a lot of tangs specifically are only wild caught at the moment. The first blue tang wasn't bred in captivity until 2016.

Point me to the captive bred regal tangs for sale and I'll point you to 1000 hobbyists with a regal tang that was caught with cyanide.

 

[dvgyfresh]

As I said, when I see any signs of growth towards that size or other issues it’s transferring to a new tank

The issue is the growth will be stunted due to being a small tank, organs will continue to grow something you can’t see until irreversible damage is done

 

[sim2142]

The issue is the growth will be stunted due to being a small tank, organs will continue to grow something you can’t see until irreversible damage is done

That sounds quite concerning and interesting

I’ll will try and find research suggesting that external tissue and organ growth can differ from internal organ growth to that extreme.

 

[Jeffcb]

The Tang Police, there coming for me.... Every ........ night ..and day!!!

 

[Brady4000]

I don’t understand this at all, the fish store sold it to me in a small baggie. My tank is much bigger!

 

[Brady4000]

To add something to the conversation, I say do it. Especially If you have a fish store that will buy it back when the time is right. All thats going to happen is they are going to sell it for more to someone els to enjoy. It’s not like you’re saying your going to flush down the toilet.

I mean... it’s 1inch...

I can’t do this because the wife calls them family, then to the dog house I go!

 

[desagon]

uhhh the irony is that a lot of tangs specifically are only wild caught at the moment. The first blue tang wasn't bred in captivity until 2016.

Point me to the captive bred regal tangs for sale and I'll point you to 1000 hobbyists with a regal tang that was caught with cyanide.

It’s a terrible practice. Anyone can agree. But, it hasn’t stopped the sale of fish.
Also, that would be a lot of work to track down 1000 hobbyists with blue tangs lol

 

[sim2142]

Unsuprisingly i havent been able to find any scholarly research or papers suggesting that marine fish, or most aquatic life in general possess a biological means to designedly stunt the growth of their tissue or organs, let alone consciously control or inhibit the growth of its external and internal tissues separately, based on living conditions or mental stress.

The only related studies i could find indicated that some species of freshwater fish have the ability to excrete growth inhibiting hormones and pheromones which can competitively stunt the growth and reproduction of nearby fish (which is mostly usefull for freshwater fish sexually competing with others trapped in small non circulating bodies of water).

Im making an assumption here (unlike the other baseless opinions in this thread) but i dont see why a marine animal like a tang, which is native to open and constantly cycling waters would have evolved or developed a mechanism enabling the ability to do this to itself or its peers, especially when it already possesses scalpel like scales. These animals aren’t widely captive bred and havent been in the hobby or kept in small bodies of water for long enough to develop a need for a competitive trait like this.

Yes, i found some articles indicating other stressors such as: lack of food, water quality etc. as a reason for stunted growth, but this is due to these factors directly inhibiting the developement of new cells, and can be reflected in all life, not just marine animals.

I believe that you can safely keep a tang in good health within an aquarium scaling with its physical size if you act quickly to change its environment upon observing behaviours indicating stress, discorders or sickness.

 

[Acros]

From my reading, what I understand is that most of the size recommendations come from an older rule/standard. It suggests the tank to be 6 times as long as the fish. This checks out with the general recommendation of a 6’ long tank to house tangs. Almost all live aquaria tank suggestions follows this pattern.

However this does not factor activity levels into account. I have read this suggestion to be revised to 12 times the length of the fish and 4 times as wide for active swimmers such as tangs. So that would be a minimum 12’ long 1000g tank to house a 1’ long tang.

Maybe rehome the fish once it outgrows the 1:12 ratio?

 

[Frogspon]

It’s a terrible practice. Anyone can agree. But, it hasn’t stopped the sale of fish.
Also, that would be a lot of work to track down 1000 hobbyists with blue tangs lol

That is the point.

You can't stand on your soap box about what's best for a fish when the only way you have one is by poisoning it with cyanide and ripping it from the wild.

Pick one.

 

[sim2142]

That is the point.

You can't stand on your soap box about what's best for a fish when the only way you have one is by poisoning it with cyanide and ripping it from the wild.

Pick one.

also add

- Buying natural liverock

- Purchasing these “rare breeds/colours” of corals, anemones and clams which weren’t aquacultured.

-Purchasing the vast majority of various sea creatures which weren’t captive bred.

-Using non reusable plastics, bags and straws

The same people on high horses here probably wouldn’t give a toss about these things. ;Meh

 

[yababo]

1 inch hippo are very unstable. Especially if you're setting one up just for the hippo, you need to wait until the tank matures at the very least.

 

[Tamberav]

Unsuprisingly i havent been able to find any scholarly research or papers suggesting that marine fish, or most aquatic life in general possess a biological means to designedly stunt the growth of their tissue or organs, let alone consciously control or inhibit the growth of its external and internal tissues separately, based on living conditions or mental stress.

The only related studies i could find indicated that some species of freshwater fish have the ability to excrete growth inhibiting hormones and pheromones which can competitively stunt the growth and reproduction of nearby fish (which is mostly usefull for freshwater fish sexually competing with others trapped in small non circulating bodies of water).

Im making an assumption here (unlike the other baseless opinions in this thread) but i dont see why a marine animal like a tang, which is native to open and constantly cycling waters would have evolved or developed a mechanism enabling the ability to do this to itself or its peers, especially when it already possesses scalpel like scales. These animals aren’t widely captive bred and havent been in the hobby or kept in small bodies of water for long enough to develop a need for a competitive trait like this.

Yes, i found some articles indicating other stressors such as: lack of food, water quality etc. as a reason for stunted growth, but this is due to these factors directly inhibiting the developement of new cells, and can be reflected in all life, not just marine animals.

I believe that you can safely keep a tang in good health within an aquarium scaling with its physical size if you act quickly to change its environment upon observing behaviours indicating stress, discorders or

I don’t feel that can be determined by just observing a fish.

One can find numerous posts that sailfin tangs are regarded as a fast growing tang... at least to 4-5 inches range before they slow.

If a sailfin tang is kept in a small tank and still small a year later. This should at least should set off alarm bells to need more research.

Is there research papers on sailfin growth rate in the wild? I would think they would want to grow fast and get bigger and not be prey and get to breeding size but can’t say I ever tried to research this.

I would think it is possible that a tang kept in a small tank may be under stress that isn’t visible in its eating or swimming habits but perhaps still stressed. Enough to cause higher level of stress hormones or such and possibly stunt growth? Hence why your tang is much smaller then some other peoples experiences.

Just a theory, maybe a bored person can post data and why it is safe or not safe.

 

[Tamberav]

Here is my experience... Sailfin was purchased July 2020. It arrived skinny and pinched. It was in a 25g conditioning tank for awhile but a tank mate was showing ich so they went through hybrid TTM and then spent many more weeks in an observation tank.

July 2020 in a 25g observation tank, new arrival

Aug 2020 the Tang was in the observation tank which was just plastic plants, pvc, and brick. This was after 13 days of hybrid TTM.

Sept 11, Tang went into 80 gallon.

Nov 1st 2020, Still small but gaining some adult colors and finally has a fat belly and filled out. No more paper tang.

Now here is where it gets interesting.

Tang on Jan 7th 2021

I think we can all agree this sailfin tang grew significantly from Nov 1st to Jan 1st.

That is what? Like 9 weeks time?

So why the growth spurt? Well I am no scientist but the tang was under stress before. It was QT and TTM... it was in small tanks... it probably ich since it’s tankmate did. And it arrived very skinny and under weight.

Once all Its stressors were gone. Space, diet, and disease were cured. It grew... a lot.

Space would certainly became an issue again once it reached a certain size.

I pulled the information from time stamps.