Back at it! Peroxide vrs cyanobacteria

[twilliard]

Today is the 48hr blackout in my tank. I hope that will eliminate my cyano problem...but to be safe I'm running to CVS to grab some peroxide. What kind should I get,how much should I dose for 38g,how long should I dose for and for how many days and does it matter what time of day I dose?

Even during blackout they can uptake hydrogen sulfide
The only things I can say for sure

Dose with lights off
Dose with 3% peroxide
Number of days and dosage amount has not been concluded as of now but we are starting at the baseline of 1ml per 10 gallons of volume

 

[that Reef Guy]

TWilliard thanks for ideas and for the mention
Great details and slide pics they are amazing


That reef guy

Bacteria are not being harmed in ways that harm our tanks, see the 200+ pages in the peroxide threads. We would have the ammonia spikes you mentioned, we don't.

The peroxide thread linked as a sticky up top here also confirms, you can now rest easy. That is a common assumption about peroxide dosing. not factored in the assumption are dilutions, contact time sustained, bio insulators that protect nitrifers, the fact that they are aerobes and we are boosting oxygen and a few more missed details.

It is the same rationale that taking 1/4th of a single pill from a ten day prescribed antibiotics course won't cure an infection, even though antibiotics can kill infections.

I have Dipped Frags in Peroxide and Immediately everything on the Plug Floated Up Dead!

Pods
Asterina Stars
Baby Serpent Stars

So if these more Complex Organisms Die Immediatly why wouldn't Simple Microscopic Organisms Die as Well?

 

[brandon429]

you weren't measuring bacteria by dipping your non target macro animals in peroxide.



Consider making a formal thread showing loss of critical bacteria. Lots of people want that to play out, we need people working against the method using proofs to either validate, change, or negate the method used in tank. It is important to know that the top chem posters I know of in reefing have your perspective, many consulted pros have written against iT




Hundreds of experienced reefers agree with you, oxidizers do attack.


since typical reef algae and cyano methods won't cover all invasions something else filled the void.


Twilliards thread in the least is reviewing details for a large demand. People want water-dosed cyano cures, and he's offering free science. chemi- clean charged $ to try it and made a million bucks off the option.





Your perspective is required to prevent snake oil claims/unfounded claims

T's thread will hopefully collect feedback on genus-specific tank work, there is a need. I'm not pro peroxide at all, I'll dump the fluid and never use it again as soon as our results are replicated elsewhere.



our threads list pods as partial sensitives your losses were predicted--we'd have done it differently (we try not to dip non targets in peroxide)

If the concern is about bacteria, then measure bacteria by their metabolites.








**We are better at preventing unpredicted non target losses in peroxide work than we are in preventing invasions.
the hallmark of our hard work threads is how we protect non targets, including bacteria, we aren't able to solve all algae issues. If we read the peroxide thread above from Troylee, that's another forty pages of data with little of my bias. No mass pod loss, where dilutions were correct. Ammonia, nitrate readings all ok.





* if I put a kalk slurry on a bunch of pods and stars, or vodka, it will kill them too. See the the tie-in I'm making? Kalk is still handy in the right concentrations

 

[twilliard]

I have Dipped Frags in Peroxide and Immediately everything on the Plug Floated Up Dead!

Pods
Asterina Stars
Baby Serpent Stars

So if these more Complex Organisms Die Immediatly why wouldn't Simple Microscopic Organisms Die as Well?

During the dip what percentage and what ratio are you using?
Yes straight 3% peroxide kills most everything

 

[twilliard]

There was an interesting find in Cowboys tank that needs mention
During my observations of his sample water there was a good population of living spirulina, living and healthy even after 6 days in transit.
This is also a cyanobacteria but this one is beneficial
The source of the spirulina is unknown
I tried to get a shot of it but dies rapidly under the microscope and hard to capture and image because of its high activity.
So for all who have a microscope it looks like a long corkscrew pulling in and out and green in color

 

[cowboy]

Day 1 of dosing H2O2 at 1 ml per 10 gal
LPS no noticeable discomfort
SPS no noticeable discomfort
NPS retracted for about 1 hr after
Fish showing no sign of discomfort
Protien skimmer had to turn down for about 30 minutes
Water clarity increased

 

[Hawain_Rob]

Blackout did nuffin

 

[cowboy]

Ok same as before red for cyano green for hair and orange for dino.
After the first there is already a noticeable difference in all three algae. And again through out the day nothing has shown any signs of discomfort good PE in fact better PE on the gorgi and the birdsnest. Also want to note that I have not dosed for my CA or my DKH yet.
Current water quality
CA 435
DKH 7.4
MG 1380
Po4 .1
No3 undetected
Ammonia undetected
Ph 8.18

S.G. 1.025

 

[flyinryan75]

Following quietly

 

[reefeqmover]

3 days lights out works

 

[100LL]

@cowboy
It's time!
Cyano has been confirmed in your 125
To start we will do the standard 10:1 ratio that is stated online in many threads.
For every 10 gallons of volume add 1ml of peroxide
To all following members, cowboy has agreed to assisting me in this study.

I may have missed this, but is this a daily dose or one time dose amount?

 

[TheEngineer]

Daily

 

[cowboy]

Day 2 of dosing H2O2.
SPS no signs of discomfort
LPS no signs of discomfort
Nps retracted again but duration was much shorter full PE after 20 min.
Fish no signs of discomfort
Protien skimmer has been turned down.
Water clarity same as yesterday.

 

[twilliard]

I would safely have to say the reason for the lower level of the skimmer is due to the dead free floating bacteria
Positive results so far!

 

[cowboy]

I would safely have to say the reason for the lower level of the skimmer is due to the dead free floating bacteria
Positive results so far!

We are are only day 2 into it and alot more algea is already cleared out.

 

[twilliard]

We are are only day 2 into it and alot more algea is already cleared out.

What is the regrowth rate?
I know for my cyano I can grow about 1/4" a day with 24 hour lighting

 

[cowboy]

The regrowth would very day to day but the first picture was 6 days after WC.
Now after dosing the decline rate is more the question and im pretty please with that. Which even thats kinda hard to measure as its full matte leaving the building.

 

[Hawain_Rob]

Have you determined how long to dose for?

 

[twilliard]

Just from me trying to grow it I have come to the conclusion they are picky!
When you don't want cyanobacteria to grow it will grow like a weed.
Now in my case I want it to grow and takes me days to get a good specimen

 

[twilliard]

Have you determined how long to dose for?

No we are currently working on length and timing of dosing.