Bacto Balance, or Elimi-NP?

[ReefKeeperElite]

Ah, the different pellet thing makes some sense. I'm not sure the explanation is simple as that. But I was assuming you were using our NP BACTO Pellets. In that case, this scenario would be really weird!

I’m not sure that we can explain this totally. But my recommendation still stands the same. Except, I would add that maybe moving to NP BACTO Pellets would give you a very different result than what you had before.

Okay thanks. I'll stick with Elimi NP for a couple more weeks to see if it is able to make a dent in my nutrients on its own. If nutrients start coming down a little, then I'll know the TM compound works with my system, and I'll be more confident in trying the NP bacto pellets, since I believe both products use the same compound, just at different dosages. One other question considering my history, do you think it would be okay to raise my Elimi NP dosage higher than the max, or should I just wait it out a couple more weeks and see if it starts to have an effect at the max dosage?

 

[Lou Ekus]

Okay thanks. I'll stick with Elimi NP for a couple more weeks to see if it is able to make a dent in my nutrients on its own. If nutrients start coming down a little, then I'll know the TM compound works with my system, and I'll be more confident in trying the NP bacto pellets, since I believe both products use the same compound, just at different dosages. One other question considering my history, do you think it would be okay to raise my Elimi NP dosage higher than the max, or should I just wait it out a couple more weeks and see if it starts to have an effect at the max dosage?

I would wait and see if it starts to make a differnence. I would rather see you not go higher than the max recommended dose yet.

And BTW, the ELIMI NP and NP BACTO Pellets are quite different in compunds. So one is really not an indication of how the other will work. In fact, they work very well when used together!

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I would wait and see if it starts to make a differnence. I would rather see you not go higher than the max recommended dose yet.

And BTW, the ELIMI NP and NP BACTO Pellets are quite different in compunds. So one is really not an indication of how the other will work. In fact, they work very well when used together!

Okay, thanks Lou. I must be thinking of something else, maybe NP Bacto Balance and Elimi NP being the same compound. Anyway, I appreciate your time and advice. I'll continue at the same dose on Elimi NP for a couple weeks, and also look more into the bacto pellets, now knowing they work well in concert. I'm still trying to recover my mental health from my biopellet reactor clogging and subsequent nutrient surge, so I'm more biased to liquid carbon dosing at the moment. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

After 3 weeks with Elimi NP at max dose, absolutely horrible results.
Regretting I ever tried this product and for holding out hope that it would start working some day.

 

[Lou Ekus]

After 3 weeks with Elimi NP at max dose, absolutely horrible results.
Regretting I ever tried this product and for holding out hope that it would start working some day.

I am sorry you are having such trouble with this product. We have NEVER seen this kind of result from its use. I encourage you to give me a call in the office so I can jelp you dignose why this is happening. I hope to speak to you soon.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Thank you for helping! I tried to reach you, and left a voicemail with my number.
Please call me when you are available.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I am sorry you are having such trouble with this product. We have NEVER seen this kind of result from its use. I encourage you to give me a call in the office so I can jelp you dignose why this is happening. I hope to speak to you soon.

Thank you for chatting with me yesterday Lou, it's respectful that you take time out of your schedule to hear issues that TM users are facing. I'll stay the course with Elimi NP and wait out whatever is going on with the tank.

Like you, I have not heard from fellow reefers that they have experienced the same issue as mine, and am very curious what may be going on here. I thought it had to do with the abruptness of my biopellet reactor being shut down, and replaced with Elimi NP, but as we discussed, that should not explain the dramatic rise in nutrients whist dosing Elimi NP.

Although it is slow to act on nutrient levels for whatever reason is making my system unique, I do see positive signs that Elimi NP is having an impact, such as more polyps / brightness showing on my chalice coral, and my skimmer is starting to produce better foam.

Also, I did have a small nitrate drop today, from 36.6 to 36.1, and my alkalinity has risen slightly as well, making me think the Elimi NP may be starting to take hold. I plan to test daily since I'm at the max dosage, and update you every now and then.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I decided to go above the max recommended dosage since my nutrients continued to rise, and I see no adverse effects to fish or invertebrates, and am now at 6ml per day. My NO3 and PO4 are holding steady right now at 37-38 NO3 and 0.78 PO4. I've been diluting my tank water to see my true PO4 level, since my Hanna checker maxes out.

I did notice when I checked my PO4 midday after the dosing cycle, rather than my normal 6am testing time, that the reading was about 0.1 lower. See the dip in the PO4 chart below. To maintain more consistency, today I started spreading the dosage out over 24 hours, rather than my usual morning window of 7:30am to 1:30pm.

Also, as shown in the PH/ORP chart below, these parameters were being yanked back and forth during the dosing time period. PH dropping 0.07 - 0.10, and ORP spiking 80 - 100. Spreading the dosage over 24 hours should smooth out those charts too.

Please let me know your thoughts.

 

[Troylee]

I decided to go above the max recommended dosage since my nutrients continued to rise, and I see no adverse effects to fish or invertebrates, and am now at 6ml per day. My NO3 and PO4 are holding steady right now at 37-38 NO3 and 0.78 PO4. I've been diluting my tank water to see my true PO4 level, since my Hanna checker maxes out.

I did notice when I checked my PO4 midday after the dosing cycle, rather than my normal 6am testing time, that the reading was about 0.1 lower. See the dip in the PO4 chart below. To maintain more consistency, today I started spreading the dosage out over 24 hours, rather than my usual morning window of 7:30am to 1:30pm.

Also, as shown in the PH/ORP chart below, these parameters were being yanked back and forth during the dosing time period. PH dropping 0.07 - 0.10, and ORP spiking 80 - 100. Spreading the dosage over 24 hours should smooth out those charts too.

Please let me know your thoughts.

I use bacto balance at 8ml a day and my tank runs great!

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I use bacto balance at 8ml a day and my tank runs great!

That's around where I started before my biopellet reactor seized up and decided to try Elimi NP. Hopefully Elimi NP will turn around my nutrients someday, and I can start on Bacto Balance too.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Nutrient levels were a bit higher today, NO3 at 39.3, PO4 at 0.68, so changing the dosing schedule did not help. Anyway, since my nutrients seem highly out of balance, was wondering if I should use Bacto Balance to get to a proper ratio first, then try Elimi NP again. Or use both products at the same time. The TM chart says to use Elimi NP to get the PO4 level down, then switch to BB. But at the same time, I believe carbon dosing is not very effective with nutrient levels out of balance. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Lou Ekus]

Nutrient levels were a bit higher today, NO3 at 39.3, PO4 at 0.68, so changing the dosing schedule did not help. Anyway, since my nutrients seem highly out of balance, was wondering if I should use Bacto Balance to get to a proper ratio first, then try Elimi NP again. Or use both products at the same time. The TM chart says to use Elimi NP to get the PO4 level down, then switch to BB. But at the same time, I believe carbon dosing is not very effective with nutrient levels out of balance. Any thoughts on this?

I don't think the NP BACTO Balance will make mush difference for you. I don't think your nutrient imbalance is the issue. From everything that you are describing, it really feels like there is some "input" of nutrients that we have not identified yet. For the PO4, it could be PO4 that is leaching into the water column from the rock or substrate from previously high levels. It usually takes longer for the PO4 to build up to that level in the substrate and rockwork. But maybe that is part of what is going on. I haven't seen that happen as redily with NO3. But I don't thin k it is "impossible". With the amount of carbon dosing you are doing, im put must be a factor in my mind. But I'm not sure where that is coming from.
In any case, I wouldn't think that adding NP BACTO Balance to the equation will help the situation much.

 

[Troylee]

Nutrient levels were a bit higher today, NO3 at 39.3, PO4 at 0.68, so changing the dosing schedule did not help. Anyway, since my nutrients seem highly out of balance, was wondering if I should use Bacto Balance to get to a proper ratio first, then try Elimi NP again. Or use both products at the same time. The TM chart says to use Elimi NP to get the PO4 level down, then switch to BB. But at the same time, I believe carbon dosing is not very effective with nutrient levels out of balance. Any thoughts on this?

I don’t know the science behind it, but me personally I’ve always used vodka and mb7 myself.. my numbers were up there 30 n03 and around .1 on my p04 with it and I stopped vodka the day I started bacto balance and after about 2 weeks my numbers dropped and they hold steady no matter how much I feed or what I do. I never tried the elimi myself. I don’t think it would hurt but Randy or Hans could give you a scientifical answer over my user experience lol..

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I don’t know the science behind it, but me personally I’ve always used vodka and mb7 myself.. my numbers were up there 30 n03 and around .1 on my p04 with it and I stopped vodka the day I started bacto balance and after about 2 weeks my numbers dropped and they hold steady no matter how much I feed or what I do. I never tried the elimi myself. I don’t think it would hurt but Randy or Hans could give you a scientifical answer over my user experience lol..

Thanks for the perspective. Hopefully Lou Ekus will jump in with more info.
But any help from anyone who's been through this would be helpful.

 

[Troylee]

Thanks for the perspective. Hopefully Lou Ekus will jump in with more info.
But any help from anyone who's been through this would be helpful.

He did right above me..

 

[Patx]

Thanks for the perspective. Hopefully Lou Ekus will jump in with more info.
But any help from anyone who's been through this would be helpful.

Was using vodka/vinegar/sugar mix... and cheato in strong light.
i need to dose at least (+5ppm) no3 and (+0.03ppm) po4 to maintain them.

I switch to bacto balance.(0.6-0.8ml/day in 55g system)
No3 sky rocket without dosing, cheato regress i need to lowering the light % (no3 in the 27-30ppm now still slowly rising)
I still have to dose kh2po4 (+0.03 ppm) to maintain.

At least i don't have to dose no3 anymore...
But something don't make sens... idk what...

anyway i want no3 to go lower so last week i start dosing vodka/vinegar/sugar mix (1ml/55g) and still keeping dosing bacto.
No3 didn't move for now. so im going for 2ml mix.
i can inform you if something change if you want.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Was using vodka/vinegar/sugar mix... and cheato in strong light.
i need to dose at least (+5ppm) no3 and (+0.03ppm) po4 to maintain them.

I switch to bacto balance.(0.6-0.8ml/day in 55g system)
No3 sky rocket without dosing, cheato regress i need to lowering the light % (no3 in the 27-30ppm now still slowly rising)
I still have to dose kh2po4 (+0.03 ppm) to maintain.

At least i don't have to dose no3 anymore...
But something don't make sens... idk what...

anyway i want no3 to go lower so last week i start dosing vodka/vinegar/sugar mix (1ml/55g) and still keeping dosing bacto.
No3 didn't move for now. so im going for 2ml mix.
i can inform you if something change if you want.

Yes please, let us know how it goes. Would like to see if NO3 eventually stabilizes with just the Bacto, and your nutrients begin to balance and come down.

 

[blstravler]

I’ve been dosing Elimi NP for a few weeks now. I started so I cold stop using Phosphate RX to bring down my Phos. My current dose is at 1.5 ml, total water volume is around 135gal. My Phos keeps climbing. It was at .01 now at .17 My N is pretty stable at around 4.0. Thinking about just bumping up my dose to 2.0ml or using Phosphate RX again to bring down my Phosphates.

 

[Lou Ekus]

I’ve been dosing Elimi NP for a few weeks now. I started so I cold stop using Phosphate RX to bring down my Phos. My current dose is at 1.5 ml, total water volume is around 135gal. My Phos keeps climbing. It was at .01 now at .17 My N is pretty stable at around 4.0. Thinking about just bumping up my dose to 2.0ml or using Phosphate RX again to bring down my Phosphates.

I would say that your PO4 at 0.17 ppm is ok, as long as ot is not promoting any algea growth. In the meantime, I would look carefully for some "input" of PO4. This could be form preserv ative in foods, or some source of leaching. I say this becasue it is very unusual to see the PO4 rising that much with the inoput of that dose of ELIMI NP......just a thought.

 

[blstravler]

I would say that your PO4 at 0.17 ppm is ok, as long as ot is not promoting any algea growth. In the meantime, I would look carefully for some "input" of PO4. This could be form preserv ative in foods, or some source of leaching. I say this becasue it is very unusual to see the PO4 rising that much with the inoput of that dose of ELIMI NP......just a thought.

@Lou Ekus You are spot on, I've been feeding pellets heavily and have stopped pellets and moved to frozen once a day. I do have some algae creeping up so I did do small dose of Phosphate RX to get it down a little. I know the algae is consuming the Phos so I'm sure I likely have more Phos then what is showing on the test. I'm going to test Phos every day for a couple weeks until it stabilizes and then likely move to Bacto Balance.

I do run a refugium with Chaeto and I was wondering your thoughts on keeping it going long term (once my Phos stabilizes). If I get P & N where I like them and Bacto Blanca keeps them steady I wonder if the refugium is even needed, our would it even last long term, would the Chaeto eventually just die off?