Bacto Balance, or Elimi-NP?

[Lou Ekus]

@Lou Ekus You are spot on, I've been feeding pellets heavily and have stopped pellets and moved to frozen once a day. I do have some algae creeping up so I did do small dose of Phosphate RX to get it down a little. I know the algae is consuming the Phos so I'm sure I likely have more Phos then what is showing on the test. I'm going to test Phos every day for a couple weeks until it stabilizes and then likely move to Bacto Balance.

I do run a refugium with Chaeto and I was wondering your thoughts on keeping it going long term (once my Phos stabilizes). If I get P & N where I like them and Bacto Blanca keeps them steady I wonder if the refugium is even needed, our would it even last long term, would the Chaeto eventually just die off?

If everything stabilizes with the refugium running, and the cheato stay viable, then that is the way to keep it. If you get rid of the cheato at that point, then the PO4 and NO3 will rise again. If you get things stabilized and the cheato starts to die off, then that is the way to go. The system will tell you what you need to do if you learn its language and you listen to what it is saying. (if you know what I mean)

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I don’t know the science behind it, but me personally I’ve always used vodka and mb7 myself.. my numbers were up there 30 n03 and around .1 on my p04 with it and I stopped vodka the day I started bacto balance and after about 2 weeks my numbers dropped and they hold steady no matter how much I feed or what I do. I never tried the elimi myself. I don’t think it would hurt but Randy or Hans could give you a scientifical answer over my user experience lol..

After reading your post, along with the Elimi NP description section shown below, I decided to go with Bacto Balance for a week to see what happens. Apparently I should be using Bacto Balance instead of Elimi NP if my ratio is out of balance?

Anyway, I decided to give it a try. Couldn't hurt, since one month at the max Elimi NP dose did not work for me at all. After 1 week using the max Bacto dosage instead, NO3 went from 38 to 41.2, and PO4 went from 0.66 to 0.74.

So my starting ratio was 57, and my latest ratio is 56.

These results show that, after 1 week, my ratio got closer to the 10:1 ratio recommended for dosing Elimi NP by 57 - 56 = 1. Does this mean Bacto Balance is working to balance my nutrients, although very slowly? At this rate I'd have to dose Bacto Balance for another 46 weeks before I have a ratio where Elimi NP can be used. Does this sound correct?

 

[Troylee]

After reading your post, along with the Elimi NP description section shown below, I decided to go with Bacto Balance for a week to see what happens. Apparently I should be using Bacto Balance instead of Elimi NP if my ratio is out of balance?

Anyway, I decided to give it a try. Couldn't hurt, since one month at the max Elimi NP dose did not work for me at all. After 1 week using the max Bacto dosage instead, NO3 went from 38 to 41.2, and PO4 went from 0.66 to 0.74.

So my starting ratio was 57, and my latest ratio is 56.

These results show that, after 1 week, my ratio got closer to the 10:1 ratio recommended for dosing Elimi NP by 57 - 56 = 1. Does this mean Bacto Balance is working to balance my nutrients, although very slowly? At this rate I'd have to dose Bacto Balance for another 46 weeks before I have a ratio where Elimi NP can be used. Does this sound correct?

How much are you dosing daily? I’m at 8ml a day myself.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

How much are you dosing daily? I’m at 8ml a day myself.

I'm doing 7ml on my 750xxl, 200g, but probably closer to 175g water volume.

 

[Troylee]

I'm doing 7ml on my 750xxl, 200g, but probably closer to 175g water volume.

Your p04 doesn’t look bad but could be a little lower.. in your case I’d dose some mb7 or zeobak and use the bacto balance to feed it and drop your n03 to desired levels..

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

Your p04 doesn’t look bad but could be a little lower.. in your case I’d dose some mb7 or zeobak and use the bacto balance to feed it and drop your n03 to desired levels..

Thanks. Have you had success with MB7 dosing alongside the Bacto, and if so, how frequently and how much were you dosing?

 

[Troylee]

Thanks. Have you had success with MB7 dosing alongside the Bacto, and if so, how frequently and how much were you dosing?

I do! I dose a capful 5ml or so 3-4 times a week.. my tank is about 350gallons wet.

 

[Lou Ekus]

After reading your post, along with the Elimi NP description section shown below, I decided to go with Bacto Balance for a week to see what happens. Apparently I should be using Bacto Balance instead of Elimi NP if my ratio is out of balance?

Anyway, I decided to give it a try. Couldn't hurt, since one month at the max Elimi NP dose did not work for me at all. After 1 week using the max Bacto dosage instead, NO3 went from 38 to 41.2, and PO4 went from 0.66 to 0.74.

So my starting ratio was 57, and my latest ratio is 56.

These results show that, after 1 week, my ratio got closer to the 10:1 ratio recommended for dosing Elimi NP by 57 - 56 = 1. Does this mean Bacto Balance is working to balance my nutrients, although very slowly? At this rate I'd have to dose Bacto Balance for another 46 weeks before I have a ratio where Elimi NP can be used. Does this sound correct?

My suggestion is to be less concerned with the ratio and more focused on the concentrations. In the Tropic Marin view, the NO3 is not very important. And the opitimum PO4 concentration is somewhere between 0.05 ppm and 0.15 ppm. Or something close to that. My best suggesiton for you, at this time with such high nutrients, would be to do a few aggressive size water changes. That will help get your nutrients down to more managable values. You may find that the NP BACTO Balance maintains those lower concentrations very nicely once you have them down there. Or, you may find that your input is high enough, that you still need the ELIMI N P to keeo them lower. But the water changes to lower things is my best suggestion at this point.
I hope this is helpful.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I do! I dose a capful 5ml or so 3-4 times a week.. my tank is about 350gallons wet.

Thanks, I'll give it a try. Do you dose MB7 manually, or on a doser?

 

[Reef.]

Not sure if it’s been said already but the only difference between the two is the bacto has a small amount of added nitrate and phosphate so you don’t bottom out the nutrients whereas the Elimi doesn’t, so you use the Elimi on high nutrient tanks.

 

[Patx]

Was using vodka/vinegar/sugar mix... and cheato in strong light.
i need to dose at least (+5ppm) no3 and (+0.03ppm) po4 to maintain them.

I switch to bacto balance.(0.6-0.8ml/day in 55g system)
No3 sky rocket without dosing, cheato regress i need to lowering the light % (no3 in the 27-30ppm now still slowly rising)
I still have to dose kh2po4 (+0.03 ppm) to maintain.

At least i don't have to dose no3 anymore...
But something don't make sens... idk what...

anyway i want no3 to go lower so last week i start dosing vodka/vinegar/sugar mix (1ml/55g) and still keeping dosing bacto.
No3 didn't move for now. so im going for 2ml mix.
i can inform you if something change if you want.

Yes please, let us know how it goes. Would like to see if NO3 eventually stabilizes with just the Bacto, and your nutrients begin to balance and come down.

So No3 start dropping... i start at 30ppm... im at 24ppm today.
~1week at 1ml/55gallons/day...
~1 week at 2ml/.....
~2 day at 3ml... no3 start slowly dropping...
I did 5ml yesterday... they drop by -3ppm tonight...

So will continue vsv... untill 10-15ppm... and see...

 

[Troylee]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. Do you dose MB7 manually, or on a doser?

I do it manually… just fill a cap and dump in every other day or so.

 

[Reef.]

What’s the idea of adding a bottled bacteria? Don’t think that is in the instructions?

 

[blstravler]

If everything stabilizes with the refugium running, and the cheato stay viable, then that is the way to keep it. If you get rid of the cheato at that point, then the PO4 and NO3 will rise again. If you get things stabilized and the cheato starts to die off, then that is the way to go. The system will tell you what you need to do if you learn its language and you listen to what it is saying. (if you know what I mean)

Hi again @Lou Ekus, thanks again for the input. I’ve stopped the Elimi NP and am going back to Bacto Balance. My Phos has really stayed down since changing my food and feeding habits. As well the Elimi NP also brought down my Nitrate so definitely in need of going back to Bacto Balance.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I do it manually… just fill a cap and dump in every other day or so.

Well, I'm going in the right direction now, thanks. I started on Friday, continuing with the 7ml around the clock dosing of Bacto. To this I added 1ml of Elimi after my morning feeding, and another 1ml of Elimi after my afternoon feeding. I followed each Elimi dose with 20ml of MB7. Here's the results so far:

 

[Troylee]

Well, I'm going in the right direction now, thanks. I started on Friday, continuing with the 7ml around the clock dosing of Bacto. To this I added 1ml of Elimi after my morning feeding, and another 1ml of Elimi after my afternoon feeding. I followed each Elimi dose with 20ml of MB7. Here's the results so far:

Good stuff! Just keep testing and be careful not to bottom them out! I’d back down to 5ml of mb7 and let it play out for a couple days as bacteria multiplies super fast! Get the numbers you want and you’ll know your Maintence dose..

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I've been testing every morning to be wary of any rapid depletion of nutrients. To date I've not needed to worry about that too much, but PO4 went down 0.18 in the past 2 days, which seems like a pretty fast clip. If it accelerates over the next couple days I'll cut back on the carbon dosages. I'll just do 10ml MB7 per Elimi dose today and see how it goes, then gradually work it down to 5ml total per day if seems like the MB7 is done working it's magic and properly seeded the tank.

 

[Troylee]

I've been testing every morning to be wary of any rapid depletion of nutrients. To date I've not needed to worry about that too much, but PO4 went down 0.18 in the past 2 days, which seems like a pretty fast clip. If it accelerates over the next couple days I'll cut back on the carbon dosages. I'll just do 10ml MB7 per Elimi dose today and see how it goes, then gradually work it down to 5ml total per day if seems like the MB7 is done working it's magic and properly seeded the tank.

I’m dosing 7ml daily of bacto balance and about 15ml a week of mb7 on top of a few drops of zeo bak in my coral food I make.. the carbon source is steady but the mb7 and zeobak go into a concoction of diy coral snow with coral aminos and reef roids etc. I/we call it gut loaded bacteria and that’s a different story haha.. but as bacteria and carbon sources that’s what I use weekly.

 

[ReefKeeperElite]

I’m dosing 7ml daily of bacto balance and about 15ml a week of mb7 on top of a few drops of zeo bak in my coral food I make.. the carbon source is steady but the mb7 and zeobak go into a concoction of diy coral snow with coral aminos and reef roids etc. I/we call it gut loaded bacteria and that’s a different story haha.. but as bacteria and carbon sources that’s what I use weekly.

Interesting. So you blend 15ml of MB7, 3 drops of zeo bak, a pinch (?) of reef roids, and aminos (AB+ ?) into this concoction, and feed every week? Anything else? I'd really love to know the recipe if you don't mind sharing.

 

[Troylee]

Interesting. So you blend 15ml of MB7, 3 drops of zeo bak, a pinch (?) of reef roids, and aminos (AB+ ?) into this concoction, and feed every week? Anything else? I'd really love to know the recipe if you don't mind sharing.

Correct… it’s in my tank thread a couple pages back from the last post..