Bean Animal Drain Size & Return Size

[Yellowsound]

I'm getting ready to start a new build and trying to plan out the plumbing. The tank will be
36" x 18" x 20" custom made by TankmeUsa w/ their zero overflow. I have a couple questions:

-I'm thinking that 1" PVC should be adequate for the drains. Does anyone think I should go
with 1.5" drains?

-The 'default' for the tank would be two returns. I am considering just going with a single return
to simplify things on the plumbing, plus there'd be one less line-loc in the in the display (cleaner
look, no shading from the second line-loc). I will likely run a manifold off of the return for a
carbon/GFO reactor, add'l flow in the middle section of the sump (which will be a mini-frag
tank), and a third for doing WCs. Does anyone think I need two returns in the display?

I'm sure I will have more questions, but this is a start. Look forward to hearing what you all
think!

 

[hijinks7]

1 inch drain is fine if it meets your flow through the sump needs.. You can always go bigger since you have a gate valve to match flow.

 

[Dual40IM]

I have a 200 gallon Planet Aquarium, I only have 1 inch bean animal style drain with the gate valve closed more than halfway. I am running the Current USA Eflux return pump at 60%. The drains could handle way more than I am ever gonna need to push through them. I think you should more than ok.

 

[Yellowsound]

That’s great feedback. Thanks guys!

What does everyone think about the return? It’ll be 3/4” PVC, about a 4-5’ vertical run, maybe 1/2’ horizontal run, plus the manifold. Does anyone think there’s an advantage to two return points in the display?

 

[Dual40IM]

That’s great feedback. Thanks guys!

What does everyone think about the return? It’ll be 3/4” PVC, about a 4-5’ vertical run, maybe 1/2’ horizontal run, plus the manifold. Does anyone think there’s an advantage to two return points in the display?

I have no experience running just one, so I have no real input. I think if it were me running just one return I would up the size to 1 inch. Just my opinion not saying it is right. lol, best of luck with your setup.

 

[jacksonpt]

How much flow do you want through the system? That will determine your return pump which will determine both your drain and your return plumbing.

As for the 1 vs 2 returns... 2 is more flexible, 1 is easier/more simple. Pros and cons to each.

 

[Yellowsound]

I probably will not try to do more than 5x system volume (approx 85 gallons w/ sump). Even if I did, I'm guessing
that a 3/4" return should be plenty large. I had a 1/2" return on my previous system (similar, but slightly more system
volume), and that one ran very well. But I did not run a manifold off of the return for that system. So I sized up
to 3/4" here, and I may size up my return pump, too (Sicce Syncra 2.0).

 

[Dual40IM]

I probably will not try to do more than 5x system volume (approx 85 gallons w/ sump). Even if I did, I'm guessing
that a 3/4" return should be plenty large. I had a 1/2" return on my previous system (similar, but slightly more system
volume), and that one ran very well. But I did not run a manifold off of the return for that system. So I sized up
to 3/4" here, and I may size up my return pump, too (Sicce Syncra 2.0).

Yeah with 85 gallon total you should be good with a 3/4 return. I guess I was thinking about my 200 gallon system. As far as return pump goes I really like my Eflux DC return pump. Very quiet, moves alot of water and very easy to adjust the flow with just a turn of the dial.

 

[Pivitol]

Personally I would do a single 3/4" return with a "y" output. You can either keep it 3/4" all the way or get a 3/4" to 1/2" "y" to increase velocity.

 

[Dual40IM]

Personally I would do a single 3/4" return with a "y" output. You can either keep it 3/4" all the way or get a 3/4" to 1/2" "y" to increase velocity.

That's a good idea.

 

[DCR]

If you really want 5X turnover (425 gph), you should step up to 1" and a Sicce 3.0 or even a 4.0. The 2.0 with 3/4" pipe is only going to give you about 200-300 gph when you consider all the head losses.

 

[Yellowsound]

Personally I would do a single 3/4" return with a "y" output. You can either keep it 3/4" all the way or get a 3/4" to 1/2" "y" to increase velocity.

2 questions:
How would you use the “y”? To feed two outputs in the DT? Or are you suggesting one of the outputs of the “y” would feed the manifold?

Also, all other things being equal (most importantly, turnover rate), why would increased velocity be desirable?

 

[Yellowsound]

If you really want 5X turnover (425 gph), you should step up to 1" and a Sicce 3.0 or even a 4.0. The 2.0 with 3/4" pipe is only going to give you about 200-300 gph when you consider all the head losses.

It’s true- I do still need to plug my return pump specs into a calculator w/ all the head loss variables to see what which pump will be ideal. I think 5x turnover would be the absolute maximum I would ever want, and in reality, I will probably shoot for more like 3x.

 

[Yellowsound]

I want to see if I can lure @mcarroll into the conversation...

 

[mcarroll]

(36 • 18 • 20)/231 = 56 gallons

56 • 4 = 224 GPH

Anywhere from 100-300 GPH would be fine in there.

• .5" plumbing would add another 1.7 feet of head pressure due to friction.
• .75" plumbing would add only .5 feet of head pressure.
• 1" only .2 feet.

So either of the last two options would effectively be no friction.

I assumed 6 feet of plumbing and 300 GPH, along with two elbows.

(Here's the calculator I used: http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm)

Here's a sample set of results from the 1" calc:

Liquid Friction Pressure Loss
Pressure Loss (psi): 0.07 Head Loss (ft): 0.2
Line Number:
Date: 2/17/2018
Nominal Pipe Size: 1
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 5
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 1.049
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 1.86
Reynolds Number: 15451
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.028
Overall K: 2.84
Piping Length (ft): 6
Short Radius Elbows: 2
​

It's hard to imagine a bean animal overflow being of much value on a tank this small with flow this small.

(They were designed for large tanks what the heck HUGE flow....still not a necessity there, but an understandable "precaution" when you're going so far outside a tank's design spec. That's not your case AT ALL, fwiw.)

^---That's not my typing up there in parenthesis. "what the heck" has been R2R-corrected....all I typed was "with" that I typoed to the letters W-T-H.

Leaving it typoed and mis-corrected for posterity.

Automated spellcheck is not a good idea on the server side as it indicates a potential lack of integrity of the info on here.

We already account for bad words – that's more than enough censoring. W T H doesn't need a correction unless it's from me.

 

[Yellowsound]

(36 • 18 • 20)/231 = 56 gallons

56 • 4 = 224 GPH

Anywhere from 100-300 GPH would be fine in there.

But this does not include the sump volume. That will be 26g... I just rounded up to 85g.

 

[Yellowsound]

Bean animal: I’m sure you’re right. I ran a Herbie on the tank I’m replacing (almost the same size), and that seemed fine. Because that tank leaked, I’m scared of ANY potential source of water on the floor, so I figured it couldn’t hurt to go w/ a Bean Animal.

 

[Yellowsound]

What about 2 return outputs in the display vs. 1? Since I’m not depending on the return for flow, I’m having a tough time finding the benefit of two return points in the DT. Splitting the return to accommodate 2 outputs would just add add’l head pressure w/o any obvious benefit.

Am I missing something?

 

[mcarroll]

But this does not include the sump volume. That will be 26g... I just rounded up to 85g.

I don't usually count the sump unless you're keeping fish down there.

If you had a 200 gallon sump, but still the same stuff in it and the same display tank, would you spec your return pump for 256 gallons? No.

Bean animal: I’m sure you’re right. I ran a Herbie on the tank I’m replacing (almost the same size), and that seemed fine. Because that tank leaked, I’m scared of ANY potential source of water on the floor, so I figured it couldn’t hurt to go w/ a Bean Animal.

Tanks seem to leak a lot more than plumbing fails. I can think of several leaky tank situations I've seen/hear/read about.....but honestly I've never heard of a drain clogging.

The hypothetical turbo snail on the drain doesn't really happen. Yes it can, but it doesn't.

Everyone uses weirs with teeth - sometimes with a mesh covering to keep out fish. It works. They don't clog. Even when fish go down they just live in the drain box or sump until they can be retrieved....no clogs.

Don't design out of fear. Smarts will cover it.

What about 2 return outputs in the display vs. 1? Since I’m not depending on the return for flow, I’m having a tough time finding the benefit of two return points in the DT. Splitting the return to accommodate 2 outputs would just add add’l head pressure w/o any obvious benefit.

Am I missing something?

Nope.

I only use one vertical spraybar in my 50 Breeder and my 39 gallon. Only a single 1" U-tube-style overflow box on each tank too. FWIW.

(You're right – if you were depending on it for flow, the answer would be different.)

 

[mcarroll]

see next post