Bean Animal Drain Size & Return Size

[mcarroll]

In case you just want more flow even if it's not really needed: (which is OK....it's your wallet!)

85 gallons • 4 = 340 GPH

So 200-400 GPH would be a fine target.

Assuming 400 GPH for friction calc...

• .5" plumbing add about 3 ft of head pressure due to friction.
• .75" adds just under 1 ft
• 1" adds just .3 ft....inconsequential.

1" plumbing is still pretty cheap, so that's prolly a worthy upgrade level regardless of flow.

Whether a herbie or bean is worthy or not....more of an open question.

Certainly neither will hurt anything though!

 

[Yellowsound]

Ok! Takeaways:

Drains: 1” is fine, no need for 1.5”

Return: 3/4” is fine, 1” is even better

# of return points in DT: 1 is fine.

Pump: my Sicce Syncra 2.0 is probably plenty of pump (?)


More questions:
If the ‘native’ output size of the pump is 3/4”, is there still advantage to 1” plumbing to the tank?

If I use 1” PVC on the return, am I negating any benefit if the bulkhead on the tank’s return point is 3/4”? (I assume add’l head loss in this case).

If I add a manifold off of the return, how does that change the equation? I’m assuming I’d “T” off the 1” and reduce to perhaps 1/2” for 3 outputs on the manifold.

 

[mcarroll]

Pump: my Sicce Syncra 2.0 is probably plenty of pump (?)

Should be able to push a bit less than 300 GPH – less friction losses.

If the ‘native’ output size of the pump is 3/4”, is there still advantage to 1” plumbing to the tank?

Yes...at least potentially...bigger is better with regard to flow and friction losses.

If I use 1” PVC on the return, am I negating any benefit if the bulkhead on the tank’s return point is 3/4”? (I assume add’l head loss in this case).

I doubt the difference would be very big since the friction loss difference between .75" and 1" isn't that big.

Plus the losses induced by the 3/4" might make the flow "just right" by the first set of numbers based on display-size.

If I add a manifold

Don't. Instead, use separate pumps to run any accessories IMO. Or if you must have a manifold, at least run the manifold on its own pump.

 

[Yellowsound]

Don't. Instead, use separate pumps to run any accessories IMO. Or if you must have a manifold, at least run the manifold on its own pump.

Hmmm. Ok, but why not? In this case, I would run the manifold off of the return so that I could eliminate other pumps. I’d be inclined to go up a size on the return pump to accommodate the manifold rather than add more pumps.

 

[Dual40IM]

Hmmm. Ok, but why not? In this case, I would run the manifold off of the return so that I could eliminate other pumps. I’d be inclined to go up a size on the return pump to accommodate the manifold rather than add more pumps.

If one of the reactor clog or say flow through it gets slowed down that extra water is going to go through the return line to the tank and cause more water in the display and thus cause the need to adjust the gate valve on the main drain line constantly. Water is just like electricity, it follows the path of least resistance.
As far as the (Y) goes, I think they were speaking of running a single return to the tank and then installing a Y fitting on your locline in the tank.
Hope this makes sense. What goes through my head and then to text could possibly be 2 different things. lol.

 

[jduong916]

This helped me out. Check out the calculator on the bottom, you need to enable flash.

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

[Yellowsound]

Thanks guys- all helpful stuff!

 

[mcarroll]

Mainly it doesn't fit the KISS principle.

One point of failure taking down a tank (like a return pump "running everything") isn't my style. Let the return pump do its job and leave it alone. IMO.

If you really need other secondary accessories (e.g. reactors), there's no good reason to interfere with the primary mission (return flow to display) to do it.

If you have one pump per secondary accessory you can more easily customize the flow as-needed and a failure has very little impact, except on the connected reactor itself. With a manifold, every failure, or adjustment made to one device's flow alters the flow to the others.

Also, as I think @Dual40IM was saying, if something happens to block the flow to any of the reactors on the manifold, then you've got the other reactor(s) getting blasted.

There are probably some good uses for a manifold – like distributing flow in a closed loop system or a hot tub – but I really don't think the typical reef sump is one of them.

Again just IMO....but I have thought about it some and lived with it some.

 

[Yellowsound]

Ok, I can definitely see how it may not be the best idea to run a manifold off of the return pump. I was planning to run a carbon reactor off of one of the outlets, so I will probably not do that. The other 2 intended uses were 1) add flow to one of the sump chambers... i.e, no reactors or other potential for interrupted flow, and 2) an outlet for water changes. The valve on this outlet would be in the off position except for when doing WCs. Still a bad idea to implement a manifold for these two use cases?

Separate question: in the original Bean Animal design, the full siphon is position in the middle, between the other two drains.
Is there any magic to ordering the drains this way? Or can the full siphon be on one the ends?

 

[mcarroll]

Flow
I run a powerhead for flow in the sump and FWIW I use a wide-open sump, no chambers.

I don't think I'd do sump flow with the pump you have since it's not going to do any more "extra flow" than a tiny pump like the one linked below.

But....

Water Changes
If it's actually convenient for you to do water changes from the return line then go for it – but it'll just be a tee rather than a manifold. That would not be convenient for me, BTW, so just be sure it is for you and your setup. I'd run a separate water change pump and just remove it between water changes. (I should say, that's what I actually did.)

Activated Carbon
A carbon reactor shouldn't need much flow (I mean you can even run it in a bag very effecively), so you will be able to get away with a VERY small pump. For example ($8):

80 GPH (300L/H, 4W) Submersible Water Pump, Ultra Quiet For Pond, Aquarium, Fish Tank Fountain, Powerful Water Pump with 5.9ft (1.8m) Power Cord
4.3 out of 5 stars 1,133
Dimensions:1.87in x 1.68in x 1.24in (47mm x 43mm x 30mm)

Lots of other similar options.

Bean
The height of each is mostly what counts and allows the drain system to function as advertised. I don't think lateral position makes a difference.