Bean Animal Help

[Robbie P]

hi,

I’m relatively new to the hobby. Joined a year ago with a 30 gallon IM fusion AIL tank. Loved it. It’s now a year later and just completed a custom 50 gallon corner pentagon on a steel platform skinned in wood. It’s a sump design tank as I am interested in growing a reef. We have a life reef sump and a synergy ghost bean animal system drilled and installed.

I worked with my LFS to help me plumb. The tank is up and running.... but.... after many hours of tinkering and working with the LFS and synergy reef.... I still have unacceptable gurgling/water rushing noises down the main drain pipe. I’ve tried every combo of the power setting and gate valve setting. As well as all of the different pipe height settings in the actual overflow box.

At the end of the day... I’ve achieve a full siphon. My noise comes from the siphon drain pipe below the gate valve.... so from the gate valve to the sump water entry. Not sure how to alleviate this. The water is cavitating at this point and the siphon seems to be lost at this point. The pipe finishes 1” below the water surface.

I’m wondering if a soft tube (silicone) would have been better for this part as opposed to PVC piping which is what all of my plumbing is comprised of.

Open to any advice.... it’s been frustrating.

Thanks!’

 

[vetteguy53081]

Make sure return pipe is submersed and not sticking out of the water and same for return line at the sump as there is air entering somewhere. Additionally, a siphon break at top turn of pipe may help. 1" may not be enough- add extension to that pipe

 

[Snoopy 67]

Trouble @ the valve ( with a full siphon) indicates air entering the plumbing @ or before the valve.
IF you DO NOT have a full siphon there is your problem.

 

[BeejReef]

how deep into the sump do your return lines extend? If they go too deep, the system has a hard time purging any trapped air and quieting down

 

[cracker]

Agreed with above the siphon line has to be submerged But not too deep. Could be there is air trapped because the siphon isn't strong enough to blow it out the bottom. (too deep) just 1 or 2 inches is all Ya need. Good luck .

 

[Hemmdog]

How long as it been running? I just plumbed my 40b a few days ago. Every night I notice it gets a little quieter. The first night was horribly loud. Now it’s just a whisper.

 

[Robbie P]

Hi,

Thanks all to the responses. I’ve been playing around with it for two weeks now.... tried higher and lower flows in coordination with tinkering around with the gate valve. I always seem to have noise in the pipe below the gate valve. Not sure how or where the air is getting in.

I have the return drain submersed about 1.5 inches. I can look into that. Was also thinking about converting that part of the siphon drain to a silicone tube (the part entering the sump) since that may be less loud. I’m super disappointed right. Ow. Love the aquarium,, stand, sump, skimmer etc.. and excited to get this finalized. But I’m blown away at how loud the return drain is. I ended up going with a custom tank just to get the bean animal pre-drilled and set up due to its redundancy and sounds benefits.

 

[Hemmdog]

Hi,

Thanks all to the responses. I’ve been playing around with it for two weeks now.... tried higher and lower flows in coordination with tinkering around with the gate valve. I always seem to have noise in the pipe below the gate valve. Not sure how or where the air is getting in.

I have the return drain submersed about 1.5 inches. I can look into that. Was also thinking about converting that part of the siphon drain to a silicone tube (the part entering the sump) since that may be less loud. I’m super disappointed right. Ow. Love the aquarium,, stand, sump, skimmer etc.. and excited to get this finalized. But I’m blown away at how loud the return drain is. I ended up going with a custom tank just to get the bean animal pre-drilled and set up due to its redundancy and sounds benefits.

I think once you have some algae and more life in there it will quiet down. I forget to mention my new plumbing that is now quiet was a complete tank transfer. Rocks, tons of coral, fish. Lots of yuck to quiet down the pipes.
My 90g was sterile from scratch and was loud for almost 2 months until slime coats got on the plumbing.

 

[rioreef]

You said you have a full siphon (no air being sucked into pipe), but do you see air entering the sump coming from drain outflow?
If so, check all pipe fittings and check your gate valve for possible connection issues or cracks?

 

[Water Dog]

Is it possible to replumb your main siphon line such that the gate vale is lower, closer to where it drains into the sump?

It sounds like your gate valve is higher, closer to the external overflow box. If that’s the case, that’s a very long run for all the air to purge out.

In addition, I like the main siphon line to extend only an inch below the surface of the water entering the sump.

You can see how my gate valve is right above my sump. A few adjustments to tune it and it was silent in minutes!

 

[lapin]

Hi,

Thanks all to the responses. I’ve been playing around with it for two weeks now.... tried higher and lower flows in coordination with tinkering around with the gate valve. I always seem to have noise in the pipe below the gate valve. Not sure how or where the air is getting in.

I have the return drain submersed about 1.5 inches. I can look into that.

I think this could be your issue as was in another post. Mine is 1/2" below the sump water surface. The purge should done in a minute or less when you turn on your return pump. Mine blows all the air out in about 10 seconds.

 

[Robbie P]

Hi all.

My gate valve sits just above the entry to the sump.... not where the drain line exits the overflow so that feels good. I will definitely reduce the amount of pipe that goes into the sump.... down to 1/2 inch. Maybe that’s my issue and will allow me to expel the air that’s making the noise. I’ve tried different variations of the height of each pipe in the actual overflow box as well..... I’m pretty confident I have a full siphon going as the main drain pipe is substantially submerged under water.

Attaching some pics:

Does anyone use a silicone tube on their last section of the drain pipe (entering the sump)?

 

[Robbie P]

A few more pics:

In the previous pics.... the main drain pipe is in the left.... you can barely see the gate valve. It sits at the level the top of the sump is.

 

[malacoda]

If you have noise and gurgling coming from the main siphon, there are only two possible explanations.

Either:

1) you are never reaching full siphon to begin with: eg. the air isn't being fully purged, from the main siphon line.

Or,

2) You have an air leak in your return line.

Let's trouble shoot No. 2 first...

Are you are positive that no air is entering the line in the overflow box? Did you use pvc cement to connect the elbows in the u-bend together, or are they just dry-fitted together?

If you're 100% certain air isn't being drawn into the full siphon line, that only leaves No.1 ...

Being able to create as strong initial purge is one of the problems with 'narrow' overflows like the synergy. They are so small in terms of depth and surface area, that very limited head pressure -- water above the opening of the siphon line -- is able to build up before water begins flowing down the emergency line as well. And if there isn't enough head pressure above the siphon 'pushing down' on the trapped air, not all of the air will be purged from the line.

You can try two things to reduce the chances of this happening:
-- make sure there are NO horizontal sections in your full siphon line (from your pic, it looks as though there are none, so you may have that covered already)
-- make sure the top of your emergency pipe is higher than the bottom of the weir slots on the inside (display tank) portion of the overflow. The middle of the slots is a good height to set it at. This will allow the extra half-inch or so of water that builds up in the DT (before the emergency line kicks in) to add extra 'downward pressure' on the air in the siphon line to help purge the air.

Those are really the only two possibilities. If you were achieving a continuous full siphon, the only way you would hear it is if your return line ended above the water level in the sump and was creating a slash as it emptied.

 

[link81]

what do the pipes look like in the overflow itself? the heights are critical and the main drain should have no holes in it, while the secondary one should have a hole with a 1/4" air line looped around.

 

[Robbie P]

Jere’s A pic of the pipes in the overflow box. I actually now have the siphon pipe lower and the second pipe a bit higher than this picture a to create more water pressure on the siphon pipe. The water level is up to the second pike with a trickle. That said.... per the note above maybe I’ll lower the siphon pipe even more (close to the base) and raise the second pipe closer to the emergency pipe.... thus creating as much water volume as possible in the box to create the max pressure on the siphon pipe. Hopefully this will create the purge I think I’m missing.

I did glue all of the PVC pipe joints with cement.

 

[cracker]

if You change the flow rate it throws "everything" off . Stand pipe height valve setting ect. My siphon is very short . It's creepy quiet !
ps the pic looks like it is sucking a little air I can see a whirlpool.

 

[Robbie P]

You are right.... there is a whirlpool . My newest iteration (before I went to work this morning) had my siphon pipe lower and the water level higher. There was still a “hint” of a whirlpool. I can’t understand it. I’m going to lower it even more I guess (the absolute lowest I can make one) and increase the flow a bit. Need to get to a place where there is zero whirlpool.... can’t seem to get there. Can’t believe it’s so challenging. I had read pretty amazing reviews about the ghost synergy reef overflow box.... but I’m having a really tough time dialing it in.

 

[Robbie P]

I actually thought the to pipes had to be relatively close to each other in height. Clearly not the case. I’m going to have to separate them as much as possible to create more water volume in the box.

 

[link81]

the primary and secondary grains need to be turned down.
the primary needs to be lower then the secondary.
the secondary will need a hole drilled at the top for a 1/2" air line.

the whirlpool on the primary drain is doing 2 things.
its preventing a full suction from forming, and it's drawing in air creating your noise.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx