Beginner Bean Animal and Sump Questions

[BigTerp]

I've searched the interweds, this forum and the GIANT Bean Animal thread on the other forum. But I've still got some questions. First off, I'm in the VERY early stages (think research) of building a 40B with a 20L sump w/skimmer and refugium and am planning on a Bean Animal overflow for safety and noise level (tank will be in the living room next to TV). I'm still trying to slowly plan things out, so nothing is set in stone. I had a previous 10 gallon nano years ago with no sump, so this part of the hobby is new to me and

First question is with my system size I'm looking at around 300 gph through the sump (60 x 5). Does that sound about right? Or should I be shooting for more/less. I'm seeing everything from 3x to 10x system volume turnover per hour through the sump. And that number is really all over the place depending on who you ask.

Second question is bulkhead and pipe size. For my relatively small system I was thinking 1" bulk heads x2 through the glass into the overflow with 1" bulkheads and drain pipes. That should easily handle 300-400 gph, but I've read some things that suggest 1" bulkheads and pipes are noisy compared to 1.5" pipes. But I'm thinking that is only the case with higher flows that are overwhelming the primary drain (syphon) and sending too much down the secondary (open channel stand pipe)?

Third question is what overflow box do you all recommend for what I have planned? I want the box outside the tank wall versus inside/wet side. I've come across a few, but they all look to incorporate 1.5" bulkheads. I did find one that uses 1.5" bulkheads from the tank and 1" bulkheads out of the overflow box. 3" of bulkheads out of the tank, again, seems like overkill. 2 of the 1" bulkheads from tank to overflow box should be more than sufficient, correct? Thinking of contacting Modular Marine to have a custom one made once I figure out the specs I need.

Fourth question is on return pumps. I understand I need to figure out my head pressure and what I'm going to lose to that (which I understand) to get the flow I want, but what size return plumbing should I use? Just match the pump output size? Also I think just one bulkhead back into the tank is all I need. Plan to use some type of Locline nozzle to take advantage of the return flow to the tank, but the only real goal is for water exchange between display tank and sump, correct? I can get the remainder of my flow from powerheads, wavemakers, etc. Agreed?

Alright, enough questions. I certainly appreciate any and all responses, advice, help, etc.!!!

 

[blaxsun]

First and foremost, are we talking liters or gallons? (assuming the latter) Assuming 60 gallons system size, you want 3-5x flow for your return pump or 180-300 Gph (this is just a general guideline - you can always have more flow). A DC variable speed return pump is your best option, so plan for a slightly larger one than you need and dial the speed back so it's not always running at 100% (your pump will last longer and it will be quieter).

Second, 1" bulk heads are fine. You'll want a main and emergency, so in theory you'll have 2x 1" overflow pipes.

Third, the Eclipse series from Eshopps is a very popular choice and a good starting point.

Fourth, most return pumps will have a head pressure chart showing you how much performance you'll lose for height. Add 6" for every 45° turn, 1' for every 90° turn and 1" for every 1' of horizontal piping. Just do your best calculation and round up (ie: estimate high), and if the return pump still meets your needs at 50-75% of operating capacity then you should be fine. One return outlet is fine although you may want a y-splitter. 1/2" or 3/4" return plumbing is more than sufficient for your needs.

 

[Snoopy 67]

For that tank anything over a 1" drain is overkill.
A 1" siphon will do approx. 600 GPH.
Ideally, the return pump outlet should match the return line size if you can.
It's not a good idea to restrict the return line size but on bigger tanks it can be upsized for more flow.
As stated a DC pump is you best bet & oversize it a bit.
I can't help on overflows as I have always had RR tanks.

 

[Chrisv.]

It's become unpopular to use your return as a major source of flow in your tank, but this wasn't always the case. Depending on what you want to keep, you may actually benefit from high turnover. I agree that It would be ideal to be able to throttle back a DC pump to the ideal rate, and to be able to tune the rate of a direct siphon drain line using a valve.

 

[BigTerp]

First and foremost, are we talking liters or gallons? (assuming the latter) Assuming 60 gallons system size, you want 3-5x flow for your return pump or 180-300 Gph (this is just a general guideline - you can always have more flow). A DC variable speed return pump is your best option, so plan for a slightly larger one than you need and dial the speed back so it's not always running at 100% (your pump will last longer and it will be quieter).

Second, 1" bulk heads are fine. You'll want a main and emergency, so in theory you'll have 2x 1" overflow pipes.

Third, the Eclipse series from Eshopps is a very popular choice and a good starting point.

Fourth, most return pumps will have a head pressure chart showing you how much performance you'll lose for height. Add 6" for every 45° turn, 1' for every 90° turn and 1" for every 1' of horizontal piping. Just do your best calculation and round up (ie: estimate high), and if the return pump still meets your needs at 50-75% of operating capacity then you should be fine. One return outlet is fine although you may want a y-splitter. 1/2" or 3/4" return plumbing is more than sufficient for your needs.

Sorry, I'm referencing gallons.

Excellent advice on the pump!! DC, so it's adjustable, and larger than needed. Any particular brand/model that you're fond of?

Good to know that the 1" overflows will be plenty. You mention having 2, I'm planning on a Bean Animal type with 3 three pipes. Main syphon, secondary open channel and emergency open channel.

Good idea on the Y-split on the return. The goal of my sump is increased tank volume, appropriate tank turnover and filtration. But I might as well take advantage of the 3-500gph I'll be pumping back into the tank. I see Locline has some Y-type nozzles.

 

[BigTerp]

For that tank anything over a 1" drain is overkill.
A 1" siphon will do approx. 600 GPH.
Ideally, the return pump outlet should match the return line size if you can.
It's not a good idea to restrict the return line size but on bigger tanks it can be upsized for more flow.
As stated a DC pump is you best bet & oversize it a bit.
I can't help on overflows as I have always had RR tanks.

Thanks!!

So the noise I was reading from others regarding the 1" pipe I'm assuming is from to much flow? In the Dean Animal system the secondary open channel should be pulling just a bit of water, correct? If it flows too much that the secondary is pulling more than intended, it gets noisy?

As far as return line size goes the reason I asked was because I saw some pumps have 1" return outlets and others have 3/4" returns. So as long as I match the outlet size I'm good to go, right?

 

[Chrisv.]

Primary should take almost all of the water for silent operation.

This will be easy to do tune if you have a valve on your primary drain line.

 

[BigTerp]

It's become unpopular to use your return as a major source of flow in your tank, but this wasn't always the case. Depending on what you want to keep, you may actually benefit from high turnover. I agree that It would be ideal to be able to throttle back a DC pump to the ideal rate, and to be able to tune the rate of a direct siphon drain line using a valve.

Thanks!!

As far as corals go, I plan on a majority of softies and LPS. I'd like to eventually get into some SPS so need to account for some increased flow there. But no need to crank it through my sump for that, right? That's what powerheads, wavemakers, etc. are for?

Consensus on the pump looks to be DC and larger than needed and just dial it back for adjustment. Any particular pump brand/model you like?

 

[BigTerp]

Primary should take almost all of the water for silent operation.

This will be easy to do tune if you have a valve on your primary drain line.

Got it, thanks again!!

 

[Chrisv.]

Thanks!!

As far as corals go, I plan on a majority of softies and LPS. I'd like to eventually get into some SPS so need to account for some increased flow there. But no need to crank it through my sump for that, right? That's what powerheads, wavemakers, etc. are for?

Consensus on the pump looks to be DC and larger than needed and just dial it back for adjustment. Any particular pump brand/model you like?

I've actually not made the jump to DC yet personally. If your budget can accommodate it, the abyzz pumps look like they are objectively the best...I am a mere mortal, so unless a wealthy reefer leaves me one in their will (would it be inappropriate to tag people here?) I will never own one.

BRS has a video on picking a return pump that's probably worth a watch.

 

[BigTerp]

Something else I've been wondering is why the need for 2 bulkheads through the tank glass? I'm planning on an external overflow box to house my Bean Animal plumbing with a small weir box on the inside/wet side of the tank. Would much prefer to drill one hole there versus two and with my setup one 1" bulkhead from tank to overflow would handle my needs. Is the second one there for redundancy in case one of the bulkheads gets blocked/clogged?

 

[BigTerp]

I've actually not made the jump to DC yet personally. If your budget can accommodate it, the abyzz pumps look like they are objectively the best...I am a mere mortal, so unless a wealthy reefer leaves me one in their will (would it be inappropriate to tag people here?) I will never own one.

BRS has a video on picking a return pump that's probably worth a watch.

VERY rough estimate of 7' of head pressure on my return I'm looking at a pump around 2000 gph. That would give me around 7-800 gph that I can dial back for my needs. The Abyzz A100 would fit my needs there, but would eat up about 60% of my budget. LOL!!!

Thanks for the video link, much appreciated!!

 

[DavidRZ]

I'd consider a Sicce DC pump that suits your needs. I don't know of another brand that offers 5 year warranty, and there is good reason.

Abyzz would be a huge overkill for your situation!!

 

[Chrisv.]

I can’t speak to dc pumps personally, but in terms of AC pumps, I’ve had great luck with sicce, tunze, and eheim. I’d check out DC versions made by those companies. I think in general dc pumps tend to be quiet, but pay extra attention to models that brag about silence as a feature. In the past, “silent” pumps have met my expectations.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Make sure you use the same size pipe for return and overflow. I didn't make mine match to 3/4 inch and am considering redrilling the return line because it is 1/2 inch. I do have a controllable return pump, bean animal and 40b/20 gal setup.

 

[Chrisv.]

Something else I've been wondering is why the need for 2 bulkheads through the tank glass? I'm planning on an external overflow box to house my Bean Animal plumbing with a small weir box on the inside/wet side of the tank. Would much prefer to drill one hole there versus two and with my setup one 1" bulkhead from tank to overflow would handle my needs. Is the second one there for redundancy in case one of the bulkheads gets blocked/clogged?

Bingo. All it takes is one snail and a single drain tank is flooded. Trust me, you will prefer a second hole vs the giant mess, or even just worrying about the potential for a giant mess… especially when it comes time for vacation. My experience has been that even the most dedicated spousal support for this outrageous hobby is reduced by many gallons of tank water on the new hardwood.

 

[BigTerp]

Bingo. All it takes is one snail and a single drain tank is flooded. Trust me, you will prefer a second hole vs the giant mess, or even just worrying about the potential for a giant mess… especially when it comes time for vacation. My experience has been that even the most dedicated spousal support for this outrageous hobby is reduced by many gallons of tank water on the new hardwood.

Makes total sense. I mean, I'm doing the Bean Animal type overflow mainly for safety/fail-safe reasons. Would REALLY suck for the system to fail before it even gets to the overflow by a clogged/blocked bulkhead!!

 

[Chrisv.]

Makes total sense. I mean, I'm doing the Bean Animal type overflow mainly for safety/fail-safe reasons. Would REALLY suck for the system to fail before it even gets to the overflow by a clogged/blocked bulkhead!!

Yes!

Btw, I love the bean animal style drain setup. When it's well tuned it's as silent as the grave.

 

[BigTerp]

Yes!

Btw, I love the bean animal style drain setup. When it's well tuned it's as silent as the grave.

Good to hear. That's my secondary reason for that style overflow. I'm planning on my setup being in the living room right next to the TV. A noisy setup isn't going to go well there at all.

 

[Chrisv.]

Good to hear. That's my secondary reason for that style overflow. I'm planning on my setup being in the living room right next to the TV. A noisy setup isn't going to go well there at all.

I had my last big tank inside a dedicated home theater room using this sort of setup. Worked well.