Beginner in need of help with a picoreef

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

Also remember it take a while for fresh salt to mix fully.

Generally best to leave it in a bucket with a pump overnight to mix. Measure salinity again after since it may change a bit while things are fully dissolving.

Also if you have space and a container with a lid you can mix up like a months worth of salt water and store it.
Mix it again before use and make sure your salinity is correct if your container isn’t perfectly sealed.
Also remember to heat it.

The easier you can make water changes the more you will enjoy this tank.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hello Hello everyone, I need help.

About year ago an acquaintance gave me his old, well established pico reef and didn't really explain much. I do well with freshwater but I know almost nothing about saltwater.

For a couple of months I did no water changes (he said topping off with RODI was enough) and everything was going well. Almost no algae, mushrooms and zoanthus getting bigger and looking happy.

Then the previous owner told me that I should have done a 5% water change every week or 20% every month adding Aquaforest's Reef Salt and KH Plus to keep the Kh between 7-10, so I did a big water change and everything went downhill from there. The brown zoanthus started getting pale and shrinking and red algae choked everything.

Since then I've been struggling with keeping the water hardness high enough. I'm doing a small water change weekly as instructed but the two zoanthus are dead and red and green algae grow so fast it's hard to keep them at bay even cleaning weekly. Only the mushrooms are still doing well.

What should I do? If it was a freshwater tank I'd dump in some fast growing plants, shrimps and snails to starve the algae and I'd be able to bring it back, but saltwater? I have no idea.

There are a few inhabitants, a few small starfish, a shrimp that lives in a hole and looks a bit like a mantis shrimp, and there were some tiny critters around but I don't see them much nowadays. I feed the shrimp once a week with small bits of frozen fish and that's it. There's a filter too, an EHEIM aquaCorner, I rinse the sponge in old tank water when it gets clogged. The tank is around 1.85 gallons (7L), temperature around 77F (25C), Kh about 7 last time I tested but it tends to go down over time.

I have a RODI system at home and I make my own water adding reef salt (38g/L) and Kh plus.

I do have a nitrate test kit and it was usually around 0 so I stopped testing.

Which parameters should I check aside from hardness and nitrates and what other things should I do to try and bring it back? Would adding some shrimp or macro algae help? Any advice would be really appreciated.

How are you dosing alkalinity?

 

[Rmckoy]

Sadly premixed saltwater is not an option right now, it's a long walk to the store and I can't lift weights at the moment. Mixing my own water will have to do until I'll be able to bring some water home or the lockdown ends, whichever comes first.

Hopefully with a refractometer/hydrometer I can at least match the current salinity for the next water change, should be easy enough.

RODI always tested a couple of ppms even when I just got it, I heard it's common with this system and such low quantities shouldn't be a problem. I'll look into replacement cartridges anyway.

The friend that you got the tank from .
none of this was discussed ?
The need to test salinity before adding
Testing nutrients ?
instruments and testing equipment needed etc ?

the only reason I ask.
This can be a expensive but enjoyable hobby if researched or pointed in the right direction for success .
It can be very discouraging at times

Do yourself a favour and research , read on here as well as watch videos .

And as you have done . Ask questions here .
Happy reefing

 

[Kaisentlaia]

Thank you tank you everyone for the precious advice! I've ordered a refractometer that should arrive tomorrow and I'll go to the LFS later to get my water tested and pick up some CUC.

The previous owner didn't tell me anything about testing salinity, only asked if I had a Kh test kit. When I asked for directions for water changes he only told me to mix 38g of Aquaforest reef salt for 1L of water (the box says 25g) and to keep dKh in the 7-10 range by dosing Aquaforest Kh Plus if needed. Since he kept it for so long I assumed he knew what he was talking about and just followed his instructions. When I mentioned algae problems he just told me to try adding some Brightwell razor marine (I didn't yet, I'm wary of dosing too much stuff especially in such small tanks).

@58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5 thank you for the link! That was an interesting read. And I agree, that shrimp is lovely. She was an hitchhiker and she's several years old now.

Thanks (to @Tamberav as well) also for the advice on cleaning the sand bed and managing algae in general. I can never clean 100% of it since the tank is so cramped: some spots are impossible to reach so there's always leftover algae thriving in a couple of corners and between some rocks.
Would it be okay if I siphoned only the sand surface leaving the rest alone? I'm familiar with the concept of not disturbing the substrate too much, it's the same with freshwater especially in dirted tanks.

 

[Kaisentlaia]

Soooo I've been reading the Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread and I was wondering if (after figuring out testing and current/target salinity) it would make sense to move everything to a slightly bigger tank.

I took some measurements and the current one is slightly bigger than I thought (2.4 gal considering sand and water level, it's 7"x11.8"x9"h), I remembered 1.85 but that's probably the net water volume after adding rocks and filter.

I have another small tank sitting in a corner which is about the same size this reef was before getting moved to the 2.4 because of a leak. It's 9.5"x9.5"x11"h so if my math isn't wrong it should be a 3.5 gal considering sand and water level. I'm currently testing it for leaks, if it holds I could move the rocks, heater and filter, thoroughly rinse the sand and put everything back in the 3.5gal with new water at the same temp/salinity instead of doing a big water change in the 2.4gal.

I even found an old pic (about 5 years old) of the pico when it was still in a 3.5 gal tank, man it was so pretty back then:

What do you guys think? Could a sand rinse and a bigger tank help or would I only be risking to mess it up even more?

 

[Tamberav]

Personally, I would rinse or replace it. A sand bed can only last so long before it becomes saturated and causes issues.

Please be careful.. those brown palys (and probably the green) are toxic and since they died back and I don’t know what is left to what is in the water... wear gloves and such.

 

[58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5]

Sounds like the previous owner had a different/unconventional approach to this little tank. It looked like it was working for them though. Maybe there was a nuance to the maintenance that was forgotten or even something like the move threw the system out of balance.

Some things to consider when switching are
- how much extra water each water change needs
- do you have a big enough heater
- will that make access for cleaning easier

I would say do the switch. It should still be in a volume where large water changes are easy and it will probably be way easier to rinse and move directly to the new tank. The extra room around the edges will likely be nice for cleaning in future too.

I would try to arrange the rock in the same layout. At this point having anything else start dying because they suddenly changed to the dark or light would not be helpful.

Also probably worth mentioning some Zoanthids (mainly the Palythoa genus) may be toxic. Personally I would wear gloves and eye protection when handling that stuff.
And don’t boil the rock if you ever want to fully clean it.
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of information on the subject, identification of toxic species is something that currently requires a marine biologist and a lab.
Personally I think it is important to be aware of the risks so you can decide for yourself what level of precautions you want to take.
Remember there are thousands of reefers out there with these coral not using any safety equipment. Most never have a problem. I’m just from the better safe than sorry camp.
Also so previous owner never had an issue...so don’t panic about this.

 

[Rmckoy]

Personally, I would rinse or replace it. A sand bed can only last so long before it becomes saturated and causes issues.

Please be careful.. those brown palys (and probably the green) are toxic and since they died back and I don’t know what is left to what is in the water... wear gloves and such.

Preparation for another palytoxin thread .....

 

[LegendaryCG]

Please use protective gear when working in that tank. Palytoxin can be found in zoa/palys and the brown and green ones seem To have a higher incident rate.

 

[Kaisentlaia]

I've heard about palytoxins and I always try to be careful when I put my hands in the tank. Thick long rubber gloves and I always wash my hands after I'm done. One upside of covid is that I have plenty of face masks available.

Filter, lights and heater were already sized for a 3.5 gal so that should work out fine. I had plenty of tanks that size and water changes won't be a problem. Sadly the tank has a leak but I got some tank safe silicone at the store to fix it.

Water tested at 1024 salinity (33ppm?) which is good from what I've read. Can I keep it like that? By the way the guy at the store was using the exact same refractometer I've ordered so I guess that one's good.

I don't plan to sterilize the rocks in any way before moving (absolutely no boiling!) and the two palys/zoas in there are mostly dead anyway. I was thinking more of a good scrub in old tank water before moving them to clean saltwater. Then thorough sand rinse, put the clean sand in the 3.5gal, add filter, heater and rocks and then fill with clean saltwater. How does that sound?

 

[HuduVudu]

You are only dosing sodium bicarbonate/carbonate. If you are not doing adequate water changes your sodium chloride is going to be way out of balance especially in the size of tank you have.

When you water changed you brought the alignment back closer to balance, but because the water change was so big you did it too fast and the creatures had adjusted to the out of balance sodium chloride levels. This caused the problems that you experiencing.

Everything you do from this point forward is a waste of time and will exacerbate the situation. You need to stablize the tank. Your best course of action is to not do the stuff you are planning because it is going to crash your system. Also start small 5% weekly water changes and then slowly increase them. Until you are at about 15% weekly. Do these until the tank stablizes then back off to about 10% bi-monthly. I would also suggest not using the sodium bicarbonate/carbonate alkalinity supplement and switch to kalkwasser as your alk replenishment solution.

You are de-stablizing your tank and if you continue to do that it WILL crash the system.

 

[Kaisentlaia]

I've been doing weekly water changes for months now, around 10%, since that big water change that threw everything out of balance. Would 5% water changes slowly increased to 15% do anything at this point?

I'll look into kalkwasser and see if it's available here.

 

[LegendaryCG]

Stick with just doing water changes for a pico. This restores the elemental loss from coral growth.

@brandon429

 

[Rmckoy]

I agree with legendaryabove ...
stick with water changes .
make a routine out of regular maintenance and keep track of everything .
Test at the same time every day .
Weekly water changes mixed to proper salinity ( 1.024 Sg ) is good . But make sure every batch is always the same

mix the day before you
Plan maintenance .
so for example .
I test every day between 6:30 and 7:00 pm and record the results in a tracking app ( reef trace)

I mix new water Saturday’s .
Sunday is water change day
skimmer is cleaned , filter cloth is changed out

 

[HuduVudu]

I've been doing weekly water changes for months now, around 10%, since that big water change that threw everything out of balance. Would 5% water changes slowly increased to 15% do anything at this point?

I'll look into kalkwasser and see if it's available here.

If that is what you have been doing then stick with it. In about 3 months I would back down to 10% water change bi-monthly. Believe it or not water changes are intrusive and cause their own problems but they are far and away less than the problems caused by other solutions.

Kalkwasser is available everywhere, and I mean that seriously, it is called pickling lime. Research on how to properly dose it. It is very easy to use and for the consumption that you have on your tank it should be more than enough. It is a bit messy but it works very well and it will avoid the problem that you originally ran into.

I think that dosing Kalkwasser and doing regular water changes you should be able to stablize your tank and after six months of a good routine and stable maintenance then the tank will start to turn around.

This is not a fast process like everything in this hobby, anyone that tells you otherwise, is not being honest.

 

[Kaisentlaia]

I did the usual 10% weekly water change today, matching temperature and salinity. I tested the water I made with the usual method and turns out salinity was a bit lower (1022) so I added a bit more salt to reach 1024 before doing the water change.

I got a new phosphate test and checked that as well but they're zero.

I tried to vacuum most of the gunk out and now at least the sand surface is a bit cleaner and I was able to scrub most of the algae from the rocks. The mushrooms don't like tank cleaning but they'll stop sulking in a couple of hours.

I fixed the 3.5g cube and the silicone is curing but for now I'll just keep testing and doing weekly water changes.

Looking at the article posted by @58e970b2-3f88-4897-87ba-5 those are the critical water parameters to keep an eye on:
- salinity: 1024, should be okay
- alkalinity: 8dKh, good
- temperature: 25C/77F, good
- phosphates: 0, good
- pH: ?
- ammonia: ?
- magnesium: ?
- calcium: ?

I have a pH meter and an ammonia test kit so I should be able to figure those two out. Should I get magnesium and calcium tests as well before beginning with kalkwasser? And speaking of kalkwasser, I can order some: would this be good?

 

[HuduVudu]

Should I get magnesium and calcium tests as well before beginning with kalkwasser? And speaking of kalkwasser, I can order some: would this be good?

Calcium is helpful, but not necessary. Magnesium is totally optional as long as you are diligent on your water changes.

That Kalkwasser is fine. Make sure you look up how to properly dose it.

 

[brandon429]

Your reef would benefit in every possible way by a rip clean, because what that does is unplug surface area, tripling its presentation back to wastewater. The oxygenation goes up, the acidification goes down, and any doser added cant remove the mass plugging up rocks and sand.

this is an exact two tank model of a rip clean, it’s 100% all details contained. Consider this power cleaning option for its after pics:

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

what we do to the sand is precise and thorough. What we did to the rocks was different, its all timed and already practiced in thousands of rip cleans logged.

 

[Kaisentlaia]

Your reef would benefit in every possible way by a rip clean

Thank you brandon for your reply, I've been reading your sand rinse thread and it's definitely interesting!

I won't be able to get at it until the weekend, but I'm strongly leaning towards a tank swap and rip cleaning. If I got it correctly the right procedure would be:

- move rocks, water, heater and filter in another container
- empty the sand in a bucket and rinse it with tap water until it doesn't cloud anymore
- rinse the sand one last time with clean saltwater
- put the clean sand in the new tank
- fill the new tank with clean saltwater matching temp/alk/salinity of old tank
- scrub the rocks real well and take them out
- scrape as much algae as possible away with a metal tool
- dip in 3% H2O2 for a couple of minutes/until it starts to fizz
- rinse them in clean saltwater and put them in the new tank

Did I miss anything?

I think I still have some dry white quartz sand somewhere. Would it make any difference using new sand instead of rinsing the old one?

Oh and good news, the green zoa isn't dead yet! After that big cleaning I did on Sunday one of the polyps opened up again and it was even showing a little color. Maybe there's still hope after all:

After only a few days algae are growing back quickly but it's not as bad as it was before the thorough cleaning:

It will be overrun again by the end of the week tho so this is only a temporary solution. I'm beginning to think that this might be a dino outbreak since nutrients in my tank are so low, but who knows.

 

[brandon429]

The lights are driving lots of the growth, try to lower the intensity somehow

everything captioned above is perfect except the dip, no dips in peroxide


I’d leave out peroxide this one round. Clean the rocks off in saltwater using a pick or knife tip.

the ripping of the sand should help with less fuel less growback. Once the tank is totally clean, new water etc if the rocks grow back algae we can lift them out, spray peroxide on the algae areas onky and set back in tank. This first run should be just a total detritus cleanup


using old sand is fine the tap water cleans it well

yes agreed I think it’s dinos but small tanks with it aren’t too hard it’s the big tanks that take months to fix, here we can cheat lol