Bellus Angel pairing

[OrionN]

I added female to female and female to male before with Watanabei and had no problem. Mine were 420 and 320 gallon tanks

 

[Zionas]

If only I had a tank that large. Mines is only 180 gallons.

 

[lebreef]

I understand what you are saying I can't see any genetic advantage for the species of a fish changing into female colours whilst maintaining male reproductive attributes. A number of non-fertile fish in a population would be disastrous to the species in a remote location.

The aggression may be due to 'leftover' male hormones, in the same way that a castrated bull needs time for the male hormones to fall to a level to make them more docile.

Edit: must type quicker @pcon

Not sure if this happens in the wild as well or just in captivity, but if it leftover male hormones they last a while. I know of a case where the reefer ended up with a female out of a trio (including a male). Every time a new male was introduced it would get slaughtered. Then once a small female was introduced, the old "female" turned male within 10 days and they paired up.

 

[GlassMunky]

Following this thread as I would love to get a pair or a trio for my tank. So if I dump in two or three females of the same species at the same time, what are the chances one will change to a male if they’re all about the same size?

How disease resistant is this genus? I’m considering Bellus, Spotbreast, Watanabei. If it’s Lamarck’ I’ll only get one as it’s the largest. The Red Sea Swallowtails are a bit harder to find.


I’m thinking either a male / female pair of a smaller species, a trio of one or two smaller species (1 male 2 female), or a Lamarck’s and a male / female pair of a smaller species.

Also does anyone have an idea on the lifespans of Genicanthus angels? Are they closer to the lifespans of Centropyge angels or are they really long-lived like the large-Large angels?

Due to space constraints running a separate QT system is not an option for me, unfortunately. The best I can do is to select healthy specimens and my LFS has said they can take my sick fish to their store for treatment.


You posted a study on the lifespan of Centropyge angels and it said that the larger ones like C. bicolor can live for up to 18 years. Since G. watanabei, G. Bellus, and G. melanospilos are the same size or a bit larger than C. Bicolor, would you expect these Genicanthus angels to have around the same or a longer lifespan than the larger Centropyge angels? @ThRoewer

If we go by size alone, Lamarck’s gets to 9”.


Or maybe my tank (180 gallons) is too small for a trio, that just a pair would be better?

Try contacting @tsm corals about a pair.
I got my pair of Bellus Angels from them a few months ago and they came super healthy, eating, and fully QT.
They are the masters of the tank

 

[Zionas]

Really wish I could man, thanks for letting me know but I live in China. On the other half of the world. Sigh.

@GlassMunky How big is your tank and what are the tankmates of your Bellus pair? Do you find them easy fish to keep?

 

[GlassMunky]

Really wish I could man, thanks for letting me know but I live in China. On the other half of the world. Sigh.

@GlassMunky How big is your tank and what are the tankmates of your Bellus pair? Do you find them easy fish to keep?

Tank is 210G
72x30x24
Other tank mates are an orange spot rabbitfish, Potters Leopard Wrasse, pintail fairy wrasse, McCoskers Flasher Wrasse, 5 Dispar Anthias, a Fathead Anthia, and 3 fire fish. The Bellus pair are basically the Kings of the tank, nobody messes with them, and they eat like pigs. Their care level seems to be the same as any other fish so far in our experience.

 

[GlassMunky]

Here’s my pair

 

[Bpfor3]

Try contacting @tsm corals about a pair.
I got my pair of Bellus Angels from them a few months ago and they came super healthy, eating, and fully QT.
They are the masters of the tank

That is where my male is coming from. What is their QT process? will they discuss if you call?

 

[GlassMunky]

That is where my male is coming from. What is their QT process? will they discuss if you call?

Yes they will fully go over everything they do with you and answer any and all questions.
their store is about 15 minutes from my house and their facility is awesome.
every single fish In my tank came from them and every fish I get in the future will as well. They have my business for life.

 

[Zionas]

My LFS in China sometimes sells Bellus / Spotbreast / Watanabei angels as a male / female pair, sometimes they only get the females and I may have to wait for a male. It’s unclear whether two females of the same species can get along, and for me it’s also a question of whether two females of the same species can get along in a tank that’s still not considered “that” big of a tank (180 gallons).

Also debating getting a trio or maybe just a pair would be better for a tank of my size.

 

[GlassMunky]

My LFS in China sometimes sells Bellus / Spotbreast / Watanabei angels as a male / female pair, sometimes they only get the females and I may have to wait for a male. It’s unclear whether two females of the same species can get along, and for me it’s also a question of whether two females of the same species can get along in a tank that’s still not considered “that” big of a tank (180 gallons).

Also debating getting a trio or maybe just a pair would be better for a tank of my size.

I’d suggest sticking to a pair in that size tank

 

[Zionas]

A pair it is. No trio for me then. Thanks!

 

[Bpfor3]

Spoke to TSM reps. Very nice. Sounds like they do the same that i do and the fish should be clean, so i am going to add the male tomorrow to my DT and get the female through QT, which should end on 5/28 and see how it goes!

 

[nereefpat]

I understand what you are saying I can't see any genetic advantage for the species of a fish changing into female colours whilst maintaining male reproductive attributes.

Maybe it's a 'sneaker male' type situation, as in salmon, where a weaker male looks like a female so it can get in there, so to speak.

Just a thought, and I don't have a source for this in angels of course.

 

[maroun.c]

I'd add only small females. Any fish that might have started to transition can be very aggressive to other males or other transitioning fish. I have tried multiple pairs or trios over the time, and they can be very mean towards other fish in transition.
Currently have a semifasciatus (also a genicanthus) purchased years back as 2 small females which lived together for months before they both started transitioning and one shredded the other before I removed it to a QT. Remaining one has been stuck as female and is super aggressive to its reflection in the glass. Might trio to get a trio.of females to replace it or maybe risk a small female when i find one.

 

[Bpfor3]

My male from TSM came in and he looks fantastic. Ate within hours. He is currently in my display refugium. Want to get him eating well before i put in display. the female i had in QT died for some reason. Just quit eating and that was it. i just ordered a female from TSM. Their QT protocol is the same as mine. If that is true, then the extra cost is well worth the headache of QTing your own fish. Ill post a pic when i get them both in display.

 

[Bpfor3]

Just added a male and female to my DT. A little fin nipping by the male, but that’s about it. Now if I can get my tangs to chill we would be golden.

 

[CindyKz]

I added the pair to my 180 gal DT. The first thing that happened was that my white tail bristletooth tang went nuts on both of them. I hung a mirror and she is pretty preoccupied with that today.

The smaller Bellus turned aggressive toward the larger, the larger having been dominant in QT. Now the larger Bellus is hiding and the small one won't let her come out. I saw similar behavior when I was treating with copper, the smaller suddenly turned on the larger. I separated them for a week or so then put them back together, at which point everything was fine. The larger Bellus once again seemed dominant, chasing the smaller occasionally. At the time I thought it might be that the smaller was trying to become more dominant while the larger angel wasn't handling the copper well.

I'm hoping this is just a dominance thing. They both have 100% female coloration and are fairly small. I'm going to give it a couple more days and if the larger Bellus is still hiding, I'll have to try to catch and re-home her.

Thoughts?

 

[Bpfor3]

Well, here are my Bellus. Both from tsm aquatics. Both doing well. It’s nice when things work out in this hobby.

 

[CindyKz]

I added my pair on 5/24. I think the smaller female, which was the more aggressive recently, is becoming a male. I noticed a couple days ago her/his colors were muted and I became concerned about possible illness. She's fat and sassier than ever though. Today I watched for a long time and noticed some more male characteristics like an increased lyre shape to her tail and mottled coloring on her tail, which one article I read referred to as "stained glass" markings although hers are black not yellow. Also the orange/yellow coloration along the dorsal aspect is pronounced. I took a couple of pictures for this post and in them her yellow is much more visible than it is to my naked eye, possibly because I took the shots with an orange filter.

Here is a link to the article.

https://reefbuilders.com/2015/07/15/bellissima-bellus-variations-hybridization-genicanthus-bellus/