Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column?

[Townes_Van_Camp]

I have 0 stock in this pico. For the benefit of the crew here I would be more than willing to break my plan temporarily and use fresh clean rodi mixed reef crystals continue my feeding schedule and see if the bacteria has in fact transferred to the rock, glass, and equipment by monitoring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. After all, the possibility exists that my tank isn’t as ready as I believe and the water is handling bacteria more so than the surfaces in the tank. Basically check and see if it “re-cycles” upon the addition of unused water.

 

[LRT]

I have 0 stock in this pico. For the benefit of the crew here I would be more than willing to break my plan temporarily and use fresh clean rodi mixed reef crystals continue my feeding schedule and see if the bacteria has in fact transferred to the rock, glass, and equipment by monitoring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. After all, the possibility exists that my tank isn’t as ready as I believe and the water is handling bacteria more so than the surfaces in the tank. Basically check and see if it “re-cycles” upon the addition of unused water.

No need bro although I don't think you would experience much if any water column blooms I think your much better off for overall health of system using the used water in that tank.
I'm on 48 hrs with my second 80 right now. All in all this second tank will end up with 50% old system water. If I could do 100% i would.
If your worried about trace elements. Id start it with used water and do a few big changes starting in cpl weeks.

Happy to say no water column bloom on second tank whatsoever and 99% sure I won't see one judging by what I seen with tank 1

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

No need bro although I don't think you would experience much if any water column blooms I think your much better off for overall health of system using the used water in that tank.
I'm on 48 hrs with my second 80 right now. All in all this second tank will end up with 50% old system water. If I could do 100% i would.
If your worried about trace elements. Id start it with used water and do a few big changes starting in cpl weeks.

Happy to say no water column bloom on second tank whatsoever and 99% sure I won't see one judging by what I seen with tank 1

I’m not what I would call worried about trace elements. But I’m a planner and always think ahead. Maybe the day comes that water changes, kalk, and phyto need some help. I’m which case I’ll be prepared.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Bacteria has mass and it does not swim. If the water is stagnant, it sinks.

This is true for some bacteria and archaea, certainly not true for some others. Many microbes swim at incredible relative speeds. Not only that, but their movement may be surprisingly "deliberate" as some can swim towards/away from light, oxygen, organics, nutrients, etc. (phototaxis, chemotaxis, etc.). And, some that lack the ability to swim nevertheless float due to gassy or fatty vesicles.
https://reefs.com/magazine/the-carbon-continuum-heterotrophic-bacterioplankton-and-reef-food-webs
In the context of this discussion, it's worth noting that some of the most abundant nitrifiers on healthy, natural coral reefs (Rhodopseudomonas, Rhodospirillum, etc.) occur both in sandy substrates AND the water column; motile "daughter cells" are the progeny of film-bound "mother cells." These motile cells swim around for some time before locating, and settling permanently onto, a suitable substrate.

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/106835/248_2013_Article_362.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Even more amazingly, bacteria and archaea often communicate with conspecifics in order to coordinate their movements in response to changes in population density. I assure you, few microorganisms just blow around in the currents at random. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291326

 

[LRT]

I’m not what I would call worried about trace elements. But I’m a planner and always think ahead. Maybe the day comes that water changes, kalk, and phyto need some help. I’m which case I’ll be prepared.

Right on I think I totally misunderstood you or got ahead of myself maybe. I was suggesting start the tank using mature water from existing tank. I recently went opposite direction and used 100% new salt mix on one tank and experienced a cloudy bloom in it first week.
I set up second tank using 50% water from my mature healthy system and did not experience a cloudy water bloom.
I think it would be better for overall health of your system to use water from your healthy established reef if possible.
Sorry for any confusion.

 

[brandon429]

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? - Reef Central Online Community

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? The Reef Chemistry Forum

www.reefcentral.com

Tim did a great job here yep.

@schooncw are you convinced you that using reef water is solid for bac transfer?


I think it’s a neat subject because if you click anywhere online for personal testimonies nearly every says water has none / it’s all benthic and adhered. It’s neat to be dealing in unique information

Kenneth those articles are a fine way to start the morning today, excellent.

 

[schooncw]

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? - Reef Central Online Community

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? The Reef Chemistry Forum

www.reefcentral.com

Tim did a great job here yep.

@schooncw are you convinced you that using reef water is solid for bac transfer?


I think it’s a neat subject because if you click anywhere online for personal testimonies nearly every says water has none / it’s all benthic and adhered. It’s neat to be dealing in unique information

Kenneth those articles are a fine way to start the morning today, excelle

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? - Reef Central Online Community

Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? The Reef Chemistry Forum

www.reefcentral.com

Tim did a great job here yep.

@schooncw are you convinced you that using reef water is solid for bac transfer?


I think it’s a neat subject because if you click anywhere online for personal testimonies nearly every says water has none / it’s all benthic and adhered. It’s neat to be dealing in unique information

Kenneth those articles are a fine way to start the morning today, excellent.

Not sure what you are asking.

 

[brandon429]

Have we turned the tides any- do you feel it’s accurate to consider reef water just about equal to dosing bottle bac for the purpose of cycle establishment

 

[schooncw]

I’d have to review but right now, I’d say no. I’m still an advocate of using live rock and ghost feeding over old tank water and bottled bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

it would take not reading any link provided here to come to that conclusion though. Sometimes the null hypothesis is the truth


I bet if you searched the entire reefing internet, no other sources on the matter have this much material packed into a mere three pages


that person you were consulting…send them this thread let em decide>

this part on your reefcentral post needs to be redacted

-harmful, anecdotal information


the writers of cycling rules need to be held to account for not telling us this information and instead waiting on forum posters to find and post the truth. if a poll was made, the majority would agree there's no beneficial bacteria in the water even without experiment or reading the posts that say water has plenty free bacteria to offer. they would simply vote no due to groupthink.


what comes from forums isn’t always bad info

 

[brandon429]

let's say someone was interested in finding out the actual answer-not accepting anyone's guess in the matter or reference.


in my linked thread where Tuffloud connected two reefs and cycled a dry one, we merely guessed at testing the 20 day mark by dosing ammonia and seeing if it can rise and move back down on calibrated api ammonia testing, which makes api work correctly. 20 days was not the minimum time, that was merely our chosen assessment date


what if adherence of filtration bac happens faster?

if someone was interested in knowing the science, they could run a standard 5 gallon bucket reef, fifteen pounds of dry marco rocks to simulate the type of surface area contact we employ, they would merely fill with water change water from their own reef and leave it ten days, cut our time in half before running a calibrated ammonia test.

Based on NeonRabbit's findings with seneye, on completely unassisted cycles (clean water used, not oily change water filled with millions of transferrable sloughs/cells) I give a modified bucket test using aged tank water a 99% chance of passing on day ten.


after all, what date does a cycle chart show water controlling ammonia

and those were written decades before botte bac was for sale...


any discerning reader can see what we constantly do in the hobby regarding cycling science (this thread involves cycling science) is vy to validate or invalidate a common cycling chart on any given cycling post.


all stuck cycle posts are inherently stating a cycle chart doesnt apply to them, and they're not using tuned seneye to make the alarm post.

It also seems a fitting follow that to doubt water inherently has bacteria in it via contamination or direct add of bacteria that setup biofilters is to again doubt the basic cycling chart set for the hobby. its listing another reason we dont get the control on day ten the chart says we do.

someone should test that, and post that cheap easy test to run.

if no extra rocks can be attained, I accept a pile of fifteen red bricks hosed off very well and stacked in the bucket to be a fitting substitute. this test can be run cheaply