The 'hobby' has lots of written material on cycling that doesnt involve dosing ammonia to 2 ppm.
I would not cycle a tank with corals and I explained to my fellow reefer why I would never do so. I explained "why" as best as I could but wanted to explore the topic more completely. He is hell-bent on starting the cycling process with coral, says he has done it numerous times and maintains that not only is this totally harmless to coral but is more efficient. I'm an "old" reefer but know that things do change!Ammonia toxic to corals? - Reef Central Online Community
Ammonia toxic to corals? The Reef Chemistry Forumreefcentral.com
for the op- what makes you want to cycle with corals, curious about that
your question is missing core context details: if you are dry rock cycling that’s one thing, if you are using transferred live rock from another tank that can instantly use corals because that’s skip cycling.
since the hobby has no written material on cycling other than dose ammonia to 2 ppm, add bottled bac for purchase, wait months until nitrite complies (this is the buyers info, recall the sellers never do any of this) the lack of clarity is understandable.
here’s a dry start tank, with corals on day one.
Bio-spira works great
I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.www.reef2reef.com
see how bottle bac doesn’t allow free ammonia to remain for days (unless api is the tester)
that’s not really a cycling tank, that too was skip cycled even though it was dry rocks. Curious to see what reefcentral comes up with, they aren’t allowed to see or be influenced by our findings so responses there will be unique to experience on the site.
I'm 60 and my mother was raising Seahorses before I was born and I was in the aquatic industry for many years. I was simply trying to advise someone on how to cycle an aquarium properly and he said he was advised to use "old" water from another system and that would suffice.
www.reef2reef.com
I look forward to reading the thread, thanks.seahorses ordered from the back of a hunting magazine in 1987 were the first saltwater animals I'd ever beheld in my life lol and killed ten minutes later. you can *not* add water, horses, then salt. you just can not
my whole life has been getting back at that event
here's the link to review opinionated updates.
Updated Cycling Science thread 2020
The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled. you...
it is fun to study and log changes in cycling approaches as the years go by. what people post in forum data trends makes up for not owning good test kits for some params, that's for sure.
Thanks. I have been trying to grow a nitrifying biofilm on a glass microscope slide and on aragonite super glued to a glass microscope slide. No luck after trying for a couple months. And yet, samples of sand from my aquarium oxidize NH3 and make NO3. So why aren’t those bacteria in the sand making their way to my microscope slides? Seems to support the notion that aquarium water may not be a reliable source for nitrifying bacteria, at least for my aquarium.
I just read your thread and it was very interesting! Have to go over it again. So, is Dr. Tim wrong? I have not watched his vid yet but noted the comment.
I just read your thread and it was very interesting! Have to go over it again. So, is Dr. Tim wrong? I have not watched his vid yet but noted the comment and I'm still wondering....Are there significant amounts of nitrifying bacteria in the water column
Only because it can't be done without adverse affects.
Fish only tanks are running copper or some form of meds, so those systems are off limits.
The mixed reef tanks they could take water from would have to be getting an unhealthy amount of new water added to It as people bought old water from it. Imagine doing a 30% water change on your main tank every day? That would strip the nutrients in your water column.
Why take that risk when they can say there's no benefit and just sell you new
Having been in the business as a Distributor, then Manufacturer Sales Rep, the only way I have started any marine system is with a good old chunk of live rock and ghost feeding, even tho the magic in a bottle was N/C to me. That was my mother's method 60 years ago
I cycled a pico in 14 days with water from my nano. Dry rock, new tank, new equipment. I never had ammonia show up. Nitrite was non existent. Nitrate has been a steady 5ppm with a weekly ghost feeding. I over-fed a week ago to test my tanks ability to consume nitrate. There was an increase from 5 ppm to 7ppm. I am not a scientist but this absolutely worked in my pico. The water going in was 1.5 gallons of 5ppm nitrate, .03 phosphate, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. I am doing a water change Thursday with the same water from the same system and if these parameters hold, I’m calling it cycled.Here’s a tank being cycled in twenty days by adding only reef water. reef water 100% has cycling bacteria available for use and transfer, the old adage is wrong.
reef water has millions of transferable cells of bacteria that will certainly cycle.
Connecting Established Reef To New Tank
EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...
We are trained to buy bacteria from a bottle by being told incorrectly that cycles stall, or cant come free of charge by simple wait times, or by using simply old tank water.
the next time a MACNA speaker talks about cycling they need to address:
-NeonRabbits findings that a free cycle happens in a mere 30 days wait, like a cycling chart says, no feed or bottle bac required and why testing cycle rules on seneye isn’t like testing on red sea or api
-how reef water carries lots of cycling bacteria in every tank
-how seneye testing allowed the masses to find their own truths completely opposite from former cycling training, pre seneye
- how nitrite does not stall any reef cycle and never has
-how no cycles have stalled, stalled cycle posts are all misreading color compare tests. Cycles complete based on a predetermined date relative to the boosters we choose to use and if no boosters are used, they still complete on a time scale already known (this reliability allows MACNA conventions to start on time with rows of ready reefs)
Inputting dead bottle bac isn’t a stall, it’s an unassisted cycle timeline that still cycles fully in a month or so
-they need to discuss how live rock transfers are complete instant skip cycles, every time, without variation (it’s how these conventions are made)
inputting live bottle bac gets you instant ammonia control such that fish-in cycles aren’t harming fish, they’re just breaking disease protocols<- I saw Jon M’s seneye posts measuring Dr Tims as a recent example
the speaker needs to discuss why sellers at marine aquarium conventions dont have to adhere to rules they give buyers out in the field, regarding timely reef tank starts vs the risks of ‘stalls’
am pouncing the establishment not the op ~ all printed material for cycling says opposite of my claims
takeaways reefcentral can benefit from: don’t make mods the regulators of findings and information, you’ll stifle your board to the point frozen molasses runs faster.
My entire plan is to run this pico with discarded water from my nano (so long as the Nano is healthy). 100% water changes with old water
I dose aminos in the Nano 2 hours before I start the water change and will be dosing eldriges Live Photo. I am currently researching which trace elements I want to dose to the same Nano.
www.reef2reef.com
www.reef2reef.com
