Best alternative to quarantine?

[Mark Gray]

ich does get them, thats how it is brought into our aquariums. It is quite a bit easier to live with encountering 1 ich per 100,000,000 gallons than swimming in an aquarium with hundreds to thousands of ich per gallon. That would be like getting stung by 1 bee vs an entire angry hive of bees. Very different outcomes.

Well sure I guess so but I do not believe I have had a tank since the 80s that has not had ick introduced into it. I will stick with my no OT hasn't doomed me yet

 

[Lionfish hunter]

For that price I can save tons buying from other previous owners' fish that have been qtd and kept for 8+ months buddy, I am buying some fish from live aquaria that are not in the diver's den

Trust me, it is so much cheaper to pay the 20% more drreef charges than buying fish and them all dying because of parasites. I’ve done it many times, I would know.

 

[blaxsun]

The biggest cause of death in my tank is gravity.

 

[Mark Gray]

Well I’ve put many fish with ich in my aquariums over decades and every single time it happened all the fish ended up dying if I didn’t treat them all and go fallow. Not quarantining them is my biggest fail in many years of reefing. And it doesn't feel good being responsible for all their deaths. I recommend the op doesn’t make the same mistake.

Go back and read Paul B's thread there is a lot more to it than throwing fish in and hoping, immunity slime coat bacteria content all have much to do with it.

 

[reef_1]

Go back and read Paul B's thread there is a lot more to it than throwing fish in and hoping, immunity slime coat bacteria content all have much to do with it.

Yes, ozone, copper for a long time, diatom filter and then not adding much from dodgy sources.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm not trying to split hairs, but "having immunity" to something is different than "having a healthy immune system". Immunity means you (or in this case a fish) never contract a certain illness; having a good immune system means that once you contract the illness, you easily fight it off, sometimes to the point of not even becoming infectious to others.
That's what Paul B's (and others') philosophy relies on... fish that have strong immune systems (not fish that are actually immune to ich, etc).
I'm not saying that depending on a fish's immune system is the right way to go, but fish don't just magically become immune to most diseases...

No doubt, quarantining is a good way to reduce the risk of a pathogen entering the tank, but it's not foolproof.

 

[ninjamyst]

Well I’ve put many fish with ich in my aquariums over decades and every single time it happened all the fish ended up dying if I didn’t treat them all and go fallow. Not quarantining them is my biggest fail in many years of reefing. And it doesn't feel good being responsible for all their deaths. I recommend the op doesn’t make the same mistake.

You have your experience, others have theirs. It's great to share experiences but ultimately up to the OP which way he chooses. Some people believe ich is in most tanks already. Some people believe they can completely eliminate ich. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Muffin87]

I've heard good things about hydroplex by ruby reef. I use it. But I also quarantine.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You have your experience, others have theirs. It's great to share experiences but ultimately up to the OP which way he chooses. Some people believe ich is in most tanks already. Some people believe they can completely eliminate ich. Different strokes for different folks.

The people who believe ich is in all tanks are factually wrong. End of story, no discussion. There is a documented lifecycle of the parasite that is ich. It cannot live without a host, therefore it cannot appear from random water.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I'm not trying to split hairs, but "having immunity" to something is different than "having a healthy immune system". Immunity means you (or in this case a fish) never contract a certain illness; having a good immune system means that once you contract the illness, you easily fight it off, sometimes to the point of not even becoming infectious to others.
That's what Paul B's (and others') philosophy relies on... fish that have strong immune systems (not fish that are actually immune to ich, etc).
I'm not saying that depending on a fish's immune system is the right way to go, but fish don't just magically become immune to most diseases...

No doubt, quarantining is a good way to reduce the risk of a pathogen entering the tank, but it's not foolproof.

You are correct in what you said. But Paul B says over and over again his fish have immunity to ich. I have argued with him at length. The problem with Paul b is that he is old and wrote a book. So people give him credit because he has experience and wrote a book. But a really stupid person can get old and write a book. And people are blindly following him. Half the stuff he says is just totally out of left field, scientifically inaccurate, or just plain wrong.

 

[bcarrasqui]

My experience has been qt is too hard on the fish and I've had many deaths due to qt. Once I focused on good water quality and keeping aggression down I've had no problems with ich or any disease for that matter... Also keeping fish well fed, if they're eating well they do just fine. I found when I was hyper focused on parasites it took the joy out of the hobby and my hyper vigilance caused more harm than good

 

[blaxsun]

My experience has been qt is too hard on the fish and I've had many deaths due to qt.

I suspect the death rate with quarantine is significantly higher than most believe - probably in excess of 50% mortality.

 

[Kyuubi]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement.
..........

Quarantining fish doesn't always work (99% or 99.9% still isn't 100%). And then when your tank is faced with a disease, everything suffers horribly because they have no natural immunity. You don't need more of an example than the real-world mass flu spree.

I don't quarantine my fish. I run a UV 24/7 at a "kill" (not sterilize) threshold, am very picky about what fish I introduce (reputable suppliers) and feed my fish well and often - with a variety of immune-boosting supplements.

This is what I do. It works for me (outbreak free in over a year despite the addition of 30+ wild-caught fish). This isn't something I necessarily recommend as there are inherent risks the same as you take with quarantine. YMMV.

What Uv do you use?? I have an outbreak of Ich, I have eels in the tank so I can’t treat the tank with medicine. Newest fish was a pre-quarantined orange tang but I may have had it in the tank already and my other fish had been fighting it off (no noticeable spots until after a few days of adding the tang) I’ve been feeding garlic and a splash of ginger with their food. Any other tips? I don’t have a uv system yet.

 

[ninjamyst]

The people who believe ich is in all tanks are factually wrong. End of story, no discussion. There is a documented lifecycle of the parasite that is ich. It cannot live without a host, therefore it cannot appear from random water.

Those people are saying that ich is in MOST tanks because ich can come in from fish, corals, inverts, etc. Since most people don't qt everything, the chance of ich coming in is fairly high. Even if you qt your fish, you may introduce ich from a coral frag or from a snail unless you qt those in a fishless system for 2 months.

 

[blaxsun]

What Uv do you use?? I have an outbreak of Ich, I have eels in the tank so I can’t treat the tank with medicine. Newest fish was a pre-quarantined orange tang but I may have had it in the tank already and my other fish had been fighting it off (no noticeable spots until after a few days of adding the tang) I’ve been feeding garlic and a splash of ginger with their food. Any other tips? I don’t have a uv system yet.

I have an AquaUltraviolet 57-watt on my 200-gallon system. The parasite threshold of 90,000 µw/cm2 is 1,066Gph but I'm probably running mine at around 625Gph (so everything is getting a significantly higher dosage).

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Those people are saying that ich is in MOST tanks because ich can come in from fish, corals, inverts, etc. Since most people don't qt everything, the chance of ich coming in is fairly high. Even if you qt your fish, you may introduce ich from a coral frag or from a snail unless you qt those in a fishless system for 2 months.

Yes if you do not qt every snail and piece of coral you will end up getting ich.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

my experience is everything eventually dies when ich is introduced. And I have a lot of experience unfortunately. I also have a lot of experience successfully keeping expert fish and large complex aquariums. I am not just talking out of my ***.
So the fact that the above scenario is common, especially for new people getting advice on here, it should not be down played by the anti qt people. That reality needs to be acknowledged.
But even if you can keep it at bay. You have something in your tank that will kill your fish as soon as one of them gets sick or has their immune system compromised for any number of reasons. As soon as that happens there will be tens of thousands of parasites swimming in a tiny glass bowl of water. Why not just buy qt fish from drreef? They really aren’t that much more money. And the chances of you having to deal with parasites are drastically reduced.

 

[blaxsun]

my experience is everything eventually dies when ich is introduced. And I have a lot of experience unfortunately. I also have a lot of experience successfully keeping expert fish and large complex aquariums. I am not just talking out of my ***.
So the fact that the above scenario is common, especially for new people getting advice on here, it should not be down played by the anti qt people. That reality needs to be acknowledged.
But even if you can keep it at bay. You have something in your tank that will kill your fish as soon as one of them gets sick or has their immune system compromised for any number of reasons. As soon as that happens there will be tens of thousands of parasites swimming in a tiny glass bowl of water. Why not just buy qt fish from drreef? They really aren’t that much more money. And the chances of you having to deal with parasites are drastically reduced.

Everything eventually dies. I look at fish more as short-term rentals... As you aptly point out, diseases can pretty much ride in on anything (even frozen bloodworms) - so trying to maintain a 100% quarantine often ends up being some nth percentile. It's quite surprising the number of reef tanks that don't run a UV for parasites as a fail-safe.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Everything eventually dies. I look at fish more as short-term rentals... As you aptly point out, diseases can pretty much ride in on anything (even frozen bloodworms) - so trying to maintain a 100% quarantine often ends up being some nth percentile. It's quite surprising the number of reef tanks that don't run a UV for parasites as a fail-safe.

I’ve never heard of parasites in frozen food. But yes it is not easy keeping everything wet quarantined. In fact it is a massive pain. I have been doing it for 2 years now in my 235 gallon. it is very doable. The lion fish in my picture got ich and died because I added live rock from petco. What a horrible mistake that was.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Everything eventually dies. I look at fish more as short-term rentals... As you aptly point out, diseases can pretty much ride in on anything (even frozen bloodworms) - so trying to maintain a 100% quarantine often ends up being some nth percentile. It's quite surprising the number of reef tanks that don't run a UV for parasites as a fail-safe.

If I ever screw up and let ich in, I would try uv to control it. I think people don’t use it more because if you research up for ich there are a ton of posts that say don’t use it. While it will not cure ich, you won’t find anybody talking about how it can drastically reduce their numbers. And that is huge for controlling parasites.