Best overflow design?!
- Thread starter Bryan47
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Eckolancer
LED GURU
Here is a shot of my bean animal
OP
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What happens if I am not using a coast to coast overflow. Mine is about one foot across and 5 inches tall and 3 inches back to front. Will this allow enough water in for the bean animal overflow? And how do I know what size pump to get?
smb2415
Community Member
BRYAN, the answer is.... it depends
the first thing is the dimensions of your tank, without them there is no way to answer. Your tank size will tell whether the overflow is appropriately sized to provide efficient skimming surface area. Coast to coast overflows offer the most skimming surface area with lengthwise being the absolute best. overflows sized less than full width leave some "dead" spots. More flow will help move some of this however with C2C overflows it is a non issue.
As for fitting a bean animal, you would need to draw it out and see if you have sufficient space for the elbows, bulkheads, etc the the space of your overflow. Note however bean animals are not designed for full depth (traditional top to bottom of tank) overflows. Some have made it work, others scubas myself have opted to remove the traditional overflow and build a new coast to coast in it place. You can find more detailed info on the bean animal thread or his webpage. All that being said, 3" front to back is probably too narrow to put the elbows in, grab an elbow and try it....although I believe the recommended min pipe size is 1.5"... if you have a small tank perhaps 1" will work.
The amount of water is determined by your optimum flow rate for your sized tank or your preference, a bean will work with slow to fast flow, that is some of the reason the needle / ball valve is needed. To determine your tanks optimum flow rate look for aquarium flow calculators.... it will depend on what you are putting in the tank and the tank size. From there you can deduct quite a bit using powerheads, so deduct your plans for those from the overall flow. Now your left with the flow of your return pump. I would allow for some flexibility in this as you may change add/remove powerheads, you may want to increase or decrease flow.....better to have a return pump that can accommodate all of that. Then there is head height.. how far up from the sump will the pump have to push the water? pump flow rates change with head height and are listed in the specs. There are pressure vs. non pressure rated pumps, most of us use non pressure rated pumps for returns, unless you have a lot of head height (pumping from basement up, etc). There are DC and AC pumps.. its a personal choice. There are variable speed pumps (usually DC pumps) again its a personal choice... neither of these options are wrong or right.
So as you can see it depends.... If your still confused then you should do more research on these topics. It can be quite involved but don't let it overwhelm you.. building a new system is a lot of fun. The design and planning are part of that.
the first thing is the dimensions of your tank, without them there is no way to answer. Your tank size will tell whether the overflow is appropriately sized to provide efficient skimming surface area. Coast to coast overflows offer the most skimming surface area with lengthwise being the absolute best. overflows sized less than full width leave some "dead" spots. More flow will help move some of this however with C2C overflows it is a non issue.
As for fitting a bean animal, you would need to draw it out and see if you have sufficient space for the elbows, bulkheads, etc the the space of your overflow. Note however bean animals are not designed for full depth (traditional top to bottom of tank) overflows. Some have made it work, others scubas myself have opted to remove the traditional overflow and build a new coast to coast in it place. You can find more detailed info on the bean animal thread or his webpage. All that being said, 3" front to back is probably too narrow to put the elbows in, grab an elbow and try it....although I believe the recommended min pipe size is 1.5"... if you have a small tank perhaps 1" will work.
The amount of water is determined by your optimum flow rate for your sized tank or your preference, a bean will work with slow to fast flow, that is some of the reason the needle / ball valve is needed. To determine your tanks optimum flow rate look for aquarium flow calculators.... it will depend on what you are putting in the tank and the tank size. From there you can deduct quite a bit using powerheads, so deduct your plans for those from the overall flow. Now your left with the flow of your return pump. I would allow for some flexibility in this as you may change add/remove powerheads, you may want to increase or decrease flow.....better to have a return pump that can accommodate all of that. Then there is head height.. how far up from the sump will the pump have to push the water? pump flow rates change with head height and are listed in the specs. There are pressure vs. non pressure rated pumps, most of us use non pressure rated pumps for returns, unless you have a lot of head height (pumping from basement up, etc). There are DC and AC pumps.. its a personal choice. There are variable speed pumps (usually DC pumps) again its a personal choice... neither of these options are wrong or right.
So as you can see it depends.... If your still confused then you should do more research on these topics. It can be quite involved but don't let it overwhelm you.. building a new system is a lot of fun. The design and planning are part of that.
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Thank you for all the advice. The tank dimensions are a standard 40Breeder. 36x17x18 I believe. The overflow is rated for 1800gph. The sump will be right beneath the tank so there won't be much head height. I used 1 inch bulkheads that fit into a 45mm (1 ¾") hole drilled in the glass. I thought I remember reading to use a 1.5" to 1" pvc reducer so you can use 1.5 inch pipe. Won't the flow me limited by the 1 inch bulkhead size? I think once I get my first one done I will understand more clearly. And out of all the overflows I picked one of the more difficult !
Thanks for all your help!
Thanks for all your help!
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I found my layout for my tank... may help you "get the gist" of things... Keep in mind I would not go larger than 1.5" pipe... even on my size tank.
Does the 90 degree elbow need to be a flaring style that goes from 1" to 1.25" or do you just use a regular elbow? I am using this picture as reference
smb2415
Community Member
IIFC bean later revised this design a bit a said he would've used only 1.5" pipe.. given that you only have a 40 breeder I think 1.5" is way overkill, Id try using 1" all the way first. You may have problems finding these pieces in 1" and may end up needing to use 1.25" drain piping used for sinks.
A 1" x1.25" street elbow would allow you siphon a bit more, so I would try to get 3 of those. If you can't find then just use 1" elbows. Tip - cutting those fingers on the elbow are not required, most beans Ive seen do not have em.
Yes, the flow will be limited by the 1" piping however on a 40 breeder you'll likely use only a return pump and possibly one powerhead.
I don't recall where I found the following info but it may help you:
For a basic reef aquarium with softies and fish, you are aiming for over 10x flow. For an SPS reef, you are aiming for 20x-30x flow.
so using 30x flow for 40g you would need a return pump sized for 1200gph, without any reduction for powerheads.
Using powerhead you would still want to have 3x to 5x display volume should go through the sump.
so using 5x for 40g you would need a return pump sized for 200gph.
And there you have it.... your return pump should be between 200-1200gph. Your "sweet" spot is probably somewhere in the middle prob between 600-800gph.... again this depends on what you are putting in the tank.
A 1" x1.25" street elbow would allow you siphon a bit more, so I would try to get 3 of those. If you can't find then just use 1" elbows. Tip - cutting those fingers on the elbow are not required, most beans Ive seen do not have em.
Yes, the flow will be limited by the 1" piping however on a 40 breeder you'll likely use only a return pump and possibly one powerhead.
I don't recall where I found the following info but it may help you:
For a basic reef aquarium with softies and fish, you are aiming for over 10x flow. For an SPS reef, you are aiming for 20x-30x flow.
so using 30x flow for 40g you would need a return pump sized for 1200gph, without any reduction for powerheads.
Using powerhead you would still want to have 3x to 5x display volume should go through the sump.
so using 5x for 40g you would need a return pump sized for 200gph.
And there you have it.... your return pump should be between 200-1200gph. Your "sweet" spot is probably somewhere in the middle prob between 600-800gph.... again this depends on what you are putting in the tank.
Pump-a-Sump
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I have been searching for a overflow... base line... in order to build around. The base line would have to be an extreme. Something that doesn't take into consideration looks, noise or tank dimensions...
That being said...
What "Aquarium" overflow/gravity-fed plumbing design, would flow the highest volume of water in relation to its source/feed ??
I don't think the answer is as straight forward as one may assume. There are a lot of variables/physics that need to be taken into consideration like. Turbulent vs linear water flow, friction and design/dimensions
That being said...
What "Aquarium" overflow/gravity-fed plumbing design, would flow the highest volume of water in relation to its source/feed ??
I don't think the answer is as straight forward as one may assume. There are a lot of variables/physics that need to be taken into consideration like. Turbulent vs linear water flow, friction and design/dimensions
I think you guys mean gate valves, not needle valves. Needle valves are used for precice flow control and are usually on the expensive side. Globe valves are better for controlling flow, but are more expensive and can be a little more difficult to find. Ball valves are intended for on/off and throttling flow, but the ones for PVC tend to be difficult to operate and tend to bind when in place for a while. They can require excessive force and cause damage. It may be better to get a linearly operated valve (multiple turns to operate as opposed to rotary valves that are typically 90° rotation to go from open to closed) for at least the siphon line so you can set that easier.
You could also go straight to the source for info by going here
You could also go straight to the source for info by going here
