Best Pump for basement sump?

[Andrew.oh17]

Apparently Ohio Edison decided to cut power during a planned outage and not tell anyone in the NE Ohio area.

Needless to say, I am looking into moving my sump in the basement since my basement is now soaked. I have a good spot where I can fit a Rubbermaid tote or create an overflow to our utility sink.

I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on pumps for a 92 gallon tank. It will have to travel roughly 8 feet if on a table; a max of 12 if I put it on the basement floor.

Apologies if there is a thread already started surrounding this issue - feel free to redirect.

Still in shock that this actually happened.

 

[Willz]

That stinks bud. Following. I have a basement tank and sump, with aspirations of one day having another tank plumbed upstairs to the basement.

 

[crazyjay]

I was looking at a reefflo my self

 

[120reefkeeper]

Check into mag drive pumps. Either a mag drive 12 or a mag drive 18 could do it. Personally I'd go with the 18.

 

[Trivan]

I live in an area w/a lot of power outages. It looks like you possibly had a siphon happen which drained your tank so low when the pump went out. I would make sure you have a siphon break in the return.

Also when you set up the tank, did you plan to have the sump large enough to hold the water which will drain from the tank? You can pretty easily calculate how much water will flow back into the sump once you know the lowest level the water will drain from you DT. Make sure that you have at least that much capacity in your sump to hold. There should not be a need for an overflow, as if the power when back on and water did overflow, you would potentially be running the tank w/a low level of water. It would then be possible your ATO kicks in and drops your salinity.

 

[Andrew.oh17]

Check into mag drive pumps. Either a mag drive 12 or a mag drive 18 could do it. Personally I'd go with the 18.

Thanks for the heads up - I'm going to look into that pump. Just to make sure - is this the model you were referring to? (http://tinyurl.com/jzxwk8q)

Plenty of turnover even at 12' for my tiny 92 gal.

I am also looking into this Syncra 1321gph pump on BRS.

 

[Willz]

I live in an area w/a lot of power outages. It looks like you possibly had a siphon happen which drained your tank so low when the pump went out. I would make sure you have a siphon break in the return.

Also when you set up the tank, did you plan to have the sump large enough to hold the water which will drain from the tank? You can pretty easily calculate how much water will flow back into the sump once you know the lowest level the water will drain from you DT. Make sure that you have at least that much capacity in your sump to hold. There should not be a need for an overflow, as if the power when back on and water did overflow, you would potentially be running the tank w/a low level of water. It would then be possible your ATO kicks in and drops your salinity.

Yep, this is a big concern. If you are going to put a basement sump in, go big. Get a feed trough from Tractor Supply so you have a ton of space for overflow. I ALWAYS check my sump's capacity by running the power for a bit and then unplugging the pump and waiting an hour or so to make sure the sump can handle the volume of water in case of an outage.

That said, @Trivan is right, there is no way the tank should have drained to the level it did unless something is siphoning from that level in the tank. I don't think any sump can be big enough to catch ~50% of the tank's water in a power outage. And it should definitely never drain that low in your DT for a variety of reasons. Find out why the outage drained it so low.

 

[Andrew.oh17]

I live in an area w/a lot of power outages. It looks like you possibly had a siphon happen which drained your tank so low when the pump went out. I would make sure you have a siphon break in the return.

Also when you set up the tank, did you plan to have the sump large enough to hold the water which will drain from the tank? You can pretty easily calculate how much water will flow back into the sump once you know the lowest level the water will drain from you DT. Make sure that you have at least that much capacity in your sump to hold. There should not be a need for an overflow, as if the power when back on and water did overflow, you would potentially be running the tank w/a low level of water. It would then be possible your ATO kicks in and drops your salinity.

I should have planned for that - but didn't. Adding a siphon break is at the top of my list now. When I put together the basement sump I'm going to be looking into

Yep, this is a big concern. If you are going to put a basement sump in, go big. Get a feed trough from Tractor Supply so you have a ton of space for overflow. I ALWAYS check my sump's capacity by running the power for a bit and then unplugging the pump and waiting an hour or so to make sure the sump can handle the volume of water in case of an outage.

That said, @Trivan is right, there is no way the tank should have drained to the level it did unless something is siphoning from that level in the tank. I don't think any sump can be big enough to catch ~50% of the tank's water in a power outage. And it should definitely never drain that low in your DT for a variety of reasons. Find out why the outage drained it so low.

"Nah, that'll never happen to me!"

Right after this happened I watched this video and drilled a few holes to make sure it would not happen again. I will probably use the over sized Rubbermaid as a large sump as well just in case. So happy this is a holiday weekend to plan this all out.

One silver lining in all of this? I ruined all of my wife's shoes that were in the basement - she wants this done as much I do now.

 

[Willz]

One silver lining in all of this? I ruined all of my wife's shoes that were in the basement - she wants this done as much I do now.

Haha... That would do it. My wife would want the tanks out if it ruined her shoes. And I might too since we probably ought to have a separate rider on our home insurance policy to cover damage to them, since I sure can't afford to replace them!

 

[120reefkeeper]

Thanks for the heads up - I'm going to look into that pump. Just to make sure - is this the model you were referring to? (http://tinyurl.com/jzxwk8q)

Plenty of turnover even at 12' for my tiny 92 gal.

I am also looking into this Syncra 1321gph pump on BRS.

Yes you'll loose quite a bit going vertical 12' but it won't shut down on you .

If you look it up on drfostersandsmith website they have a chart with stats for ya.

 

[Downbeach]

How are you going to plumb it, internally/externally? Are there any fittings between the pump and DT, i.e. elbows, etc. Your head loss will be more than just the elevation. You might consider going with one of the Iwaki(Japanese) models, i.e. MD-RT40.

 

[JMMJ13902]

Don't go with mag drive pumps...those pumps aren't made for head pressure. I have a sump in my basement and my tank is upstairs...they are 20-25 feet away with 10+ head pressure and i use the fluval sp6. Super strong and quiet as in Church ...going for 6 years now and never had a single issue. These pumps are made my askoll brand and Italian made...guarantee to last.

 

[120reefkeeper]

Don't go with mag drive pumps...those pumps aren't made for head pressure. I have a sump in my basement and my tank is upstairs...they are 20-25 feet away with 10+ head pressure and i use the fluval sp6. Super strong and quiet as in Church ...going for 6 years now and never had a single issue. These pumps are made my askoll brand and Italian made...guarantee to last.

I've used a mag 12 before with about 9' of head pressure and never had an issue at all .

I've used these pumps over the last 16 years and have yet to have one outright fail. Periodic cleaning is all that's needed.

 

[Andrew.oh17]

It's been awhile, but I wanted to update the few folks who have helped me through this process and ask for a little more help...

I ended up going with the Reeflo Swordtail pump as you can see in the picture and a 100 gal Rubbermaid.

I have one question: the outlet on the pump is 1.25"; the bulkhead on my display tank is 0.5". The head pressure on my pump will be roughly 15' from basement to display and pumping ~800gph. Is that too much pressure on my 0.5" inlet? I will also have a ball valve near the pump to regulate flow. I'm hoping I"m over thinking things - I just want to be sure when I start gluing it all together tomorrow morning.

The photos below show not how the plumbing will look, it is only for demonstration purposes in an effort to show the reduced size in PVC/tubing.

Thanks again for all of the help!

 

[Andrew.oh17]

Excuse the mess. I've been doing a lot with our basement and plan on having everything cleaned up for tomorrow.

 

[BryanJ]

I have been using a Reeflo wahoo pump for over 10 years. They are repairable and Sequence provides great customer service. I would highly recommend these pumps to anyone with a basement sump.

 

[jason2459]

The OP is going a different direction, and a better one, then this but to clarify something...

Don't go with mag drive pumps...those pumps aren't made for head pressure. I have a sump in my basement and my tank is upstairs...they are 20-25 feet away with 10+ head pressure and i use the fluval sp6. Super strong and quiet as in Church ...going for 6 years now and never had a single issue. These pumps are made my askoll brand and Italian made...guarantee to last.

Mag 18 has a higher rated head pressure then a SP6 FYI.

I ran a mag18 for many years in my basement sump with just over 12' head pressure on it. Did very well and got around 750gph with it.

SP6 is rated at a max head height of 13' Mag 18 with a rated max flow almost half of the SP6 has a rated max head height of 16.85'

And FWIW I don't know of any internal pump that's pressure rated. Maybe Abyzz? Those can handle a very high head hight.

 

[jason2459]

It's been awhile, but I wanted to update the few folks who have helped me through this process and ask for a little more help...

I ended up going with the Reeflo Swordtail pump as you can see in the picture and a 100 gal Rubbermaid.

I have one question: the outlet on the pump is 1.25"; the bulkhead on my display tank is 0.5". The head pressure on my pump will be roughly 15' from basement to display and pumping ~800gph. Is that too much pressure on my 0.5" inlet? I will also have a ball valve near the pump to regulate flow. I'm hoping I"m over thinking things - I just want to be sure when I start gluing it all together tomorrow morning.

The photos below show not how the plumbing will look, it is only for demonstration purposes in an effort to show the reduced size in PVC/tubing.

Thanks again for all of the help!

What are you using the check valve for? If its to prevent your sump from flooding again you will want fix that. That check valve will work until you really need it to work and you'll have a flood again. Make sure your sump can handle ALL water volume with ALL equipment and pumps turned off. If it can't fix it. Then after that and you still want to use the check valve for some reason thats up to you. I just hope its not to prevent a flood.

 

[mcarroll]

I have one question: the outlet on the pump is 1.25"; the bulkhead on my display tank is 0.5". The head pressure on my pump will be roughly 15' from basement to display and pumping ~800gph.

Head pressure is vertical height above the sump water level up to the return outlet/top of the tank + friction losses.

You mentioned earlier that it was 8 or 12' and now you say 15'

Can you confirm:

• the total length of plumbing in the return line
• the actual distance between the sump water level (looks dry, so estimate the sump level) and the top of the tank.
• list all fittings
• how many outlets?
• any other important details

Short of a complete answer, I can tell you that the 1/2" is going to put a pretty sizable burden on the pump. Too much flow makes too much friction.

If possible, consider capping that return and going with bigger plumbing over the back of the tank.

Assuming your 15' number is correct and assuming your parts list, let's run some hypothetical examples just to show how much difference the plumbing size+flow can make.

Fifteen feet of 1/2" pipe would add 31 feet to your head pressure. Total head pressure: 46 feet (+306%)
Fifteen feet of 1" pipe would add only 3 feet of extra head pressure. Total head pressure: 18 feet (+120%)
Fifteen feet and 1.5" would add virtually no head pressure at all. Total head pressure: 15 feet (+0%)

Your setup with two diameters of piping aren't that simple, unfortunately. But holler back with some of those answers and we can start cooking it down as much as possible.

That check valve will work until you really need it to work and you'll have a flood again. Make sure your sump can handle ALL water volume with ALL equipment and pumps turned off.

+1

I wouldn't use a check valve at all, but since you already have it plumbed in, at the very lest do what @jason2459 said.

 

[mcarroll]

Doh!

Forgot to add that this friction-loss calculator is what I used to generate those numbers:
http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm