hybridazn
Acro killer.....
Correct, you just need a "A to A usb" to connect to the apex system.
BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD
- Thread starter Daniel@R2R
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Correct, you just need a "A to A usb" to connect to the apex system.
d2mini
5000 Club Member
LOL! I know. That was a response to people needing the separate modules in some cases. Read above.
n2585722
2500 Club Member
Sorry, I thought you were replying to the modular discussion.LOL! I know. That was a response to people needing the separate modules in some cases. Read above.
OP
OP
Daniel@R2R
Living the Reef Life
As this has turned primarily into a comparison of GHL and Apex (at least for the moment), this is my analysis of differences so far:
Apex
Pros over Profilux: More toys/accessories, more controllable outlets on powerbar, software is easily PC and Mac compatible (since it is FULLY functional from cloud for setup, programming, and firmware updates, there's no issue with platform compatibility), has acquired equipment for alk monitoring from Jim Welsh that will be coming to market soon (hopefully)
Cons: Reportedly a less stable system than GHL (though I wouldn't at all call it unstable), having to buy a module for every accessory (though from my understanding GHL does require expansion cards for the same function...so Apex needs more wires, but expansion options cost money with either system)
GHL
Pros over Apex: More stable system, cleaner setup (fewer wires), Calcium AND alk monitoring reported as coming soon (though I'm not sure if this means they have a working model or not? "Coming soon" might mean 2-3 years for all we know at this point...so for users TODAY, this isn't really a strong "pro" since it's only a promise at this point and not yet a reality)
Cons: I'm still not a fan of the 5.1 powerbar (not a deal breaker, but GHL only has 5 controllable outlets on their powerbar as compared to Apex's 8 controllable outlets), Not macOS compatible (I understand there are ways around this, but it's still a detractor as a Mac user...particularly when comparing it to Fusion).
So back to comparing powerbars to eb8's for a minute (because this is a point of comparison that is important IMHO). Has anyone ever complained about having the additional outlets on an eb8 (like perhaps they overloaded the eb8)? I'm still trying to make sense of the argument that 5 is better than 8...it still seems to me that having more controllable outlets is a preferred option. For items that require constant power, might it not just make sense to have a standalone surge suppressor?
Btw, I do really like both systems and plan to have them set up on separate tanks at some point so I can get to know them both. I don't think a consumer that chooses EITHER of them is making a "bad" choice.
Apex
Pros over Profilux: More toys/accessories, more controllable outlets on powerbar, software is easily PC and Mac compatible (since it is FULLY functional from cloud for setup, programming, and firmware updates, there's no issue with platform compatibility), has acquired equipment for alk monitoring from Jim Welsh that will be coming to market soon (hopefully)
Cons: Reportedly a less stable system than GHL (though I wouldn't at all call it unstable), having to buy a module for every accessory (though from my understanding GHL does require expansion cards for the same function...so Apex needs more wires, but expansion options cost money with either system)
GHL
Pros over Apex: More stable system, cleaner setup (fewer wires), Calcium AND alk monitoring reported as coming soon (though I'm not sure if this means they have a working model or not? "Coming soon" might mean 2-3 years for all we know at this point...so for users TODAY, this isn't really a strong "pro" since it's only a promise at this point and not yet a reality)
Cons: I'm still not a fan of the 5.1 powerbar (not a deal breaker, but GHL only has 5 controllable outlets on their powerbar as compared to Apex's 8 controllable outlets), Not macOS compatible (I understand there are ways around this, but it's still a detractor as a Mac user...particularly when comparing it to Fusion).
So back to comparing powerbars to eb8's for a minute (because this is a point of comparison that is important IMHO). Has anyone ever complained about having the additional outlets on an eb8 (like perhaps they overloaded the eb8)? I'm still trying to make sense of the argument that 5 is better than 8...it still seems to me that having more controllable outlets is a preferred option. For items that require constant power, might it not just make sense to have a standalone surge suppressor?
Btw, I do really like both systems and plan to have them set up on separate tanks at some point so I can get to know them both. I don't think a consumer that chooses EITHER of them is making a "bad" choice.
I don't think anybody complains about extra outlets. For me as an Apex user, it's the reliability of the outlets. Relays going bad on EB8s happen. I've had it happen to one of my EB8s. I see used ones on the secondary market selling for cheaper because one of the relay outlets have gone bad. The TRIAC outlets have been reportedly more reliable on the EB8s, no problems so far on mine. The new EB832s are relatively new so the jury is still out. My concern is that they are now all relay outlets on the 832s. What will that mean in terms of long term reliability?
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d2mini
5000 Club Member
I don't think anyone is saying that 5 (+1) is better than 8. But with the GHL you are getting one heck of a beefy powerbar. I also made a size comparison in an earlier post.
Comes down to priorities I guess.
As to the expansion cards, most stuff the average hobbyists needs is already contained within the stock Profilux. And it still has room for plenty more. And if that's not enough still, you can purchase an expansion box, which can also be located via a PAB cable up to 100m from the Profilux. Handy for equipment in multiple rooms or controlling multiple tanks.
ReefRocker
Active Member
Let's not forget about the multitude of connection options available on the ProfiLux. I can access it from my PC, Web server, app, and myGHL. If for some reason myGHL goes down, I can still access my controller via GHL Control Center, web server, and/or app. The system does not heavily rely on one connection option. If one goes down, you still have options.
When I first had their power bar I did not like the idea of having 5 controllable outlets, especially considering that I came from owning the 6 outlet version. After putting it to use, it really wasn't that bad. I guess it comes down to how many still need to run multiple reactors, skimmers, and multiple heaters. I can see people with 100+ gallons needing more than one powerbar. They do look nice though!
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n2585722
2500 Club Member
I would guess they all can do this now. The Archon that I have requires no apps or PC programs. The controller itself run on Linux. All you need is a device with a web browser. A smart phone can be used to start a software update if you want. It also has it's on wifi hot spot in case you do not have a network or internet. Any smart phone, tablet or computer with wifi can connect by choosing the Archon as your wifi connection. In fact that is the easiest way to setup the Archon in the first place.
bubbaque
Follow me on Instagram @ Bubbaquecorals
I do not know much about controller. The thing I see a lot when people talk about controllers is controlling them from a tablet or phone. Are you able to do this with the profilux?
MmmmBalf
Active Member
I'm in the process of choosing a controller, so this thread has been very enlightening. I'm in Australia, so we have our own unique considerations when comparing controllers. I know Australians are a minority on this forum, so I'll keep it brief.
Firstly, availability. It's pretty much down to 3 - the GHL Profilux, Neptune Apex or Aquatronica (which I know very little about). Not including DIY that is. The others don't do compatible Aussie versions (small market I'd imagine) & there's too much hassle & risk involved with trying conversions.
Secondly, price. We get ripped off when it comes to shopping for just about anything over here, especially electronics. :mad: They wonder why we all shop online!
Neptune haven't yet released a new powerbar for Australian outlets, so most sellers here only have the classic Apex pack -- AU$1133 (that's 870 USD, for the old model). One seller does the 2016 Apex but with the old Powerbar 6. AU$1599 (1230 USD). Profilux - only the 3 or 3 EX is available online locally - AU$880 for just the control unit. When you add the powerbar, probes etc, it comes out more than the Apex classic. Aquatronica standard set is AU$1249.
But here's the big deciding factor for me. The GHL Profilux is the only one I can buy overseas & get the Australian version. I can get the Profilux 4 mega pack from Germany (through Sewatec) with Australian power supply & Australian 5.1 powerbar, 4 sensors etc for 640 EUR. With shipping it works out as AU$955 or 740 USD. With that much of a price difference, the decision is really made for me.
Maybe I exaggerated on keeping it brief...
Firstly, availability. It's pretty much down to 3 - the GHL Profilux, Neptune Apex or Aquatronica (which I know very little about). Not including DIY that is. The others don't do compatible Aussie versions (small market I'd imagine) & there's too much hassle & risk involved with trying conversions.
Secondly, price. We get ripped off when it comes to shopping for just about anything over here, especially electronics. :mad: They wonder why we all shop online!
Neptune haven't yet released a new powerbar for Australian outlets, so most sellers here only have the classic Apex pack -- AU$1133 (that's 870 USD, for the old model). One seller does the 2016 Apex but with the old Powerbar 6. AU$1599 (1230 USD). Profilux - only the 3 or 3 EX is available online locally - AU$880 for just the control unit. When you add the powerbar, probes etc, it comes out more than the Apex classic. Aquatronica standard set is AU$1249. But here's the big deciding factor for me. The GHL Profilux is the only one I can buy overseas & get the Australian version. I can get the Profilux 4 mega pack from Germany (through Sewatec) with Australian power supply & Australian 5.1 powerbar, 4 sensors etc for 640 EUR. With shipping it works out as AU$955 or 740 USD. With that much of a price difference, the decision is really made for me.
Maybe I exaggerated on keeping it brief...
I had an Apex for over 3 years and had tons of components, probably close to 3K total in everything between the main controller, 5 eb8s, 2 dos pumps, wav pumps, extra probes etc and while it was a very good system, I am switching to GHL Profilux.
Neptune Systems makes great products, but for me, I do not mind paying slightly more for a more quality item that will not fail me. I've had to send in a few things back to Neptune Systems to get repaired over the years which is totally understandable, but since a controller is such a key component to my system, I rather pay extra upfront and not have to deal with those issues.
Neptune Systems makes great products, but for me, I do not mind paying slightly more for a more quality item that will not fail me. I've had to send in a few things back to Neptune Systems to get repaired over the years which is totally understandable, but since a controller is such a key component to my system, I rather pay extra upfront and not have to deal with those issues.
OP
OP
Daniel@R2R
Living the Reef Life
I'm slightly confused by this post. Are you saying you don't think the GHL will EVER fail? I don't think there's a single piece of equipment that will hold up to that standard. What has you thinking GHL is higher quality? Just curious as to what brought you to this conclusion.
DaveMorris
MACNA2016 Co-Chair
I am curious...what are the control options with GHL on a Mac? Is it a problem to set up, configure, update, etc. if I am completely Mac based both with laptop as well as having an iPhone?
Of course no item will ever fail, things break. What I am saying is that GHL is a higher quality item and will break less frequently and last longer.
I have never had a Profilux yet, but I've talked with many seasoned reefers who have had Apex and Profilux controllers and not one who has switched to Profilux has told me that any item failed on them except for the display on the main unit. They all were extremely satisfied and from all of the research I have done online I've come to the conclusion that Profilux is a better quality controller.
From what I've read, heard, and even after seeing the unit and a demo @ Macna recently, the Profilux is the top end controller on the market similar to the DaStaCo CARx or Bubble King Protein Skimmers.
Dave i use my MacBook pro to program my Profilux. I use VMware Fusion to run the Windows 10 . I run it in unity mode which lets you just run the GHL software GCC. Here is video I made showing an overview of the GCC application I was running it in fusion to do the video.
I really don't get in the GCC application much on a regular basis I use the web browser app myGHL which is like fusion on Apex. GCC is used mainly to install new firmware and assign new hardware to the Profilux controller. I do boot straight into Windows 10 when doing firmware upgrades thou I like to be really sure that I am getting a good connection when doing firmware upgrades. VMware and MacOS can fight over who has the USB connection so I just boot into Windows a couple of times a year for firmware upgrades. If you have any other question you can always PM me.
d2mini
5000 Club Member
Like Ed said above, you can use emulation software or boot directly into windows.
Either way you'll need a copy of windows and a sizable chunk of hard drive space. Then either setup bootcamp or purchase the emulation software and install windows.
This is probably what the majority of mac users do.
The third option, which is what I use, is a cheap netbook/tablet with USB. I use something like this...
https://www.amazon.com/Nextbook-Touchscreen-Detachable-Keyboard-Windows/dp/B01CF7DCC8/
Works great and lets me be mobile. I have a tank at home and a tank at the office. And I don't have to mess with my macs.
And once you are up and running, its not very often at all that you need to use the PC software.
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Who says you have to pay for Windows. I use 8 gigs of hard drive space since all I am using is GCC on Windows. If I wanted too I could boot off of a USB drive for Windows.
I use 8 gigs of hard drive space since all I am using is GCC on Windows. If I wanted too I could boot off of a USB drive for Windows.
d2mini
5000 Club Member
I didn't say you have to pay.Who says you have to pay for Windows.
(Although I did have to since I didn't have to have access to it. Until I got the tablet which came with it installed.)I'm not knocking either option, they're all great. Just expanding on your post and adding the other option of the tablet.
You can even use Freeware VM software to run Windows example I have a VirtualBox app too. An run a VM of windows you can download for free to run GCC. I know Dennis I just like you want to share our experiences running the GCC software on a Mac. It is not a deal breaker or even a big issues at all. I have been using computers as long as i have had Saltwater tanks. I still have one of the original Mac's upstairs in my office. I have been using Windows emulators on the Mac for years and years now. With the web browser myGHL like in Apex you really don't use the computer version of the software that much anymore.
