BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[Bob Escher]

As I have not owned any other devices but I have looked at many. The Neptune APEX is the one I went with. Especially after being able to see one in use. To bad more shops don't have them setup for show. I do like the APEX the most for ease of use. Don't let it fool you on the easy part this is a very well thought out controller and all the products are high quality. I have seen a few that don't seem to be on par with APEX.
Neptune APEX is what I use. Very easy to program and control from anywhere you can get a internet connection around the world.
Solid products. Expand to control as many tanks or things you want. DOS is awesome so easy to control dosing. I could go on and on. I'll make a video.

Gee maybe I'll have you take a look at mine I don't have Apex doses or the way but pretty much everything else great write up

 

[Rob Lion]

U missed the point. It means u can replace the money u spent ( on the controller) but u can't replace the time u spent sitting in ur basement with ur cats programming your controller... sorry. Just thought that was a rude comment u made about his friend.

ok, so your opinion is for me to, instead of spending time on my hobby, is to work more hours to earn more money, doing a job I don't like, in order for me to give 40% of what extra I earn to the tax man, so that I can use what's left to buy something out of the box, that will still need a lot of "configuring" that means I don't have time I spend enjoying my hobby....

To earn the $1000 to buy an Apex at $10 per hour I would have to work 140 hours. The time I've invested in creating my own aquarium controller is only about 30 hours so far and I have enjoyed every minute of it.

REEFKEEPING IS MY HOBBY INCLUDING DIY THE THAT GOES WITH IT !!!! All hobbies are time wasters..... that is their purpose!

Not everyone is in "Plastics" that apparently earn money quickly, many of us have to work hard just to earn $10 an hour.... and if @Terence was offended, whom is a mature person I am sure he is big enough to make comment about it himself.... But he is a smart professional person and read all of my comment including the smiley face at its end.

Your comments about basements and cats etc however just tells more about the type of person you are, and I personally don't think comments like that belong in a friendly helpful forum such as Reef2Reef run. But that's for @revhtree and moderators to decide.

 

[d2mini]

Ok guys, points made/taken on both sides of DIY. Let's not derail what has been an informative thread so far. Thank you all.

 

[johnlicht46]

Why did u have to go and introduce me to GHL!?!? I was ready to pull the trigger on Apex. Second guessing now

 

[jenreefer]

I just wrapped duck tape around my head. It really wants to explode. I started out confused, then saw some clarity, but now just analysis paralysis.
For someone who likes simple and quick setup without reading an entire manual or trying to download one from the internet, which unit is best? No I do not code, no I do not DIY. NOOOOOOO I do not read instructions, but the youtube videos work for me well.

I have not bought a unit yet, because I am afraid it will sit in the box unused until it is obsolete.

 

[n2585722]

I just wrapped duck tape around my head. It really wants to explode. I started out confused, then saw some clarity, but now just analysis paralysis.
For someone who likes simple and quick setup without reading an entire manual or trying to download one from the internet, which unit is best? No I do not code, no I do not DIY. NOOOOOOO I do not read instructions, but the youtube videos work for me well.

I have not bought a unit yet, because I am afraid it will sit in the box unused until it is obsolete.

Check these videos out https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/archon-controller-video-series.212531/#post-2463119. These are old now as the webpages have been updated several times but it will give you an idea. The controller is function based. You choose a function to control an ouput.

 

[jenreefer]

Check these videos out https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/archon-controller-video-series.212531/#post-2463119. These are old now as the webpages have been updated several times but it will give you an idea. The controller is function based. You choose a function to control an ouput.

thanks

 

[Lloydxmas]

Before I took my tank down last weekend, I had both the apex classic and vertex cerebra controllers connected to my tank. I used the standard temp and ph probe on the the apex and the temp probe with the cerebra. I had 2 heaters in my sump and I had 1 connected to each controller. The programming of the heaters was simple on both devices.
I had 2 Jebao wave pumps connected to the vertex and it was simple to adjust the wave settings or pick from the preloaded wave types. I originally wanted to hook the pumps up to my apex but after searching the forums, the programming looked extremely cumbersome. Although it is a cumbersome process, the apex did offer more variations and customizations to the wave types. Just as an FYI, I do work in he IT field and still thought that the programming was tedious. I was able to find a program to copy and paste from the apex forum for my avast vibe so I had that connected to the apex.
The vertex cerebra forum was extremely helpful and vertex is listening to its members and are adding the features the forum members are asking for. The cerebra head unit is bulky and the power bar is huge. I found the led lighting on the powerbar to be very useful. It made seeing what was on at a glance a breeze. Being able to hit the feed button right on the controllers screen was a huge help. The style of touch screen they used takes some getting use to.
The apex forum was helpful as well but I tried copying some programs from the forum and many did not work as expected or at all. The equipment is small and fairly easy to hide. One major con of the apex classic is the need for and external wireless adapter or you will have to run an Ethernet cable cable to the unit so that it is hard wired. I was able to get mine to work over my wireless with an iogear network adapter but it is ridiculous that it even required it.

 

[HeadStrongGrafx]

I only have used the Apex for the past 2 years.. never had an issue, I am a lil tech challenged and there are many features I have no idea to use. Ha ha
I really only use to monitor salinity,temp,ph and ph in my calc reactor. Now my gripes, having to use a network cable but obviously the new version is wireless. I would like if the individual modules were connected wireless too. No bus cables. Reason being I have 3 tanks and would love to have probes in the other two that communicated with the main unit and can bring up the parameters on each tank anytime.

 

[Terence]

I just wrapped duck tape around my head. It really wants to explode. I started out confused, then saw some clarity, but now just analysis paralysis.
For someone who likes simple and quick setup without reading an entire manual or trying to download one from the internet, which unit is best? No I do not code, no I do not DIY. NOOOOOOO I do not read instructions, but the youtube videos work for me well.

I have not bought a unit yet, because I am afraid it will sit in the box unused until it is obsolete.

Check out my 15 minute set up video.

I originally wanted to hook the pumps up to my apex but after searching the forums, the programming looked extremely cumbersome. Although it is a cumbersome process, the apex did offer more variations and customizations to the wave types.

You might have been looking at the older way to configure them or some seriously complex operation from another user. Apex Fusion allows you to adjust the flow patterns of all 0-10V equipment right in the graph UI seen here:

 

[Terence]

GHL HAS ITS UL certification NOT LIKE OTHER ......

This is very interesting. Do you know what part of the system has a UL rating, under what section, and the file number on the label. As far as I know, certification under "aquarium devices" does not cover devices like these controllers.

I mention the GHL Control Center as it is the foundation for all of their products on the PC platform, and functions the same regardless of device (arguably a pro, but I imagine I would have the same challenges with it until I got familiar with it). Programming through the Control Center makes more sense the longer you do it, but at first I had a hard time with the translation from German to English and I back to my first point there isn't as much out there compared to Apex to help troubleshoot, so the less-than-savvy computer folks may struggle with GHL more than Apex to accomplish the same goals.
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They can achieve nearly the same goals for all of us hobbyists and having both in this space will only make our lives better through competition

A good point here when making a comparison. The Apex is made to be cross platform compatible. On the new Apex, its OS needs no outside program to update it - it is just done wirelessly. On the Classic, we have a firmware updater for Mac. We have an iOS App and the Apex Fusion interface is cross platform and browser independent. It works on nearly all internet devices. I do not know the lowdown on all the others out there, but it would be interesting to hear so a comparison could be made.

Not everyone is in "Plastics" that apparently earn money quickly, many of us have to work hard just to earn $10 an hour....

Most who have saltwater aquariums do not make $10 an hour. That is not an opinion, that is not casting judgement, that is just the facts of the market demographic. My comment was made only to illustrate that if the reasoning for anyone to do DIY is financially based, it is probably not sound as after you buy all the components and invest all of your time, you would be behind, not ahead. If you are doing it for the fun of it, by all means, go for it! I am with you!

Now, as for the "Plastics" comment, that was my (probably weak) attempt at humor based on pop culture. It was a reference to the Graduate.

 

[Mrx7899]

I have an Apex classic, vertex cerebra and a reefkeeper Lite plus. Apex by far is my favorite one basically if you can program it will do it that's what I like about it. The cerebra has a long way to go before it's in apexs league still has major bugs to work out but once they do it will be a good controller. The reefkeeper Lite for the money is hard to beat

 

[Rob Lion]

Now, as for the "Plastics" comment, that was my (probably weak) attempt at humor based on pop culture. It was a reference to the Graduate.

Mr @Terence , you're trying to seduce me (with your silver and orange apex..... aren't you) ?

 

[morpheas]

You might have been looking at the older way to configure them or some seriously complex operation from another user. Apex Fusion allows you to adjust the flow patterns of all 0-10V equipment right in the graph UI seen here

I think he was referring to the nice options that the vortechs have through wxm (reef crest, random etc). I went through the process he mentions from the forums and it works pretty well but it would've been nice if in some future update you added an option for the vdm to have all the goodies (I'm sure it's not only jebao ones that are hindered by this).

 

[Whipples]

A good point here when making a comparison. The Apex is made to be cross platform compatible. On the new Apex, its OS needs no outside program to update it - it is just done wirelessly. On the Classic, we have a firmware updater for Mac. We have an iOS App and the Apex Fusion interface is cross platform and browser independent. It works on nearly all internet devices. I do not know the lowdown on all the others out there, but it would be interesting to hear so a comparison could be made.

Hi Terence, I apologize my post was unclear - I meant that GHL Control Center is what you would use regardless of GHL device, so you have to learn it no matter what piece of kit of theirs you pick up. With Apex Fusion, it has been much easier to access and adjust between my iPhone and laptop, and arguably is a simpler single interface for all things Apex, whereas the GHL Control Center requires you to select devices and connect to them, and program them that way. Sorry for that confusion!

 

[Whipples]

@jenreefer BRS has a video series that covers the pros, cons and basic programming of ReefKeeper, Apex, and I think they've added more over time but I had used those as a resource when I was comparing. They don't have a video series that I am aware of for the Profilux, but GHL is working on getting that out themselves

 

[Lloydxmas]

Check out my 15 minute set up video.

You might have been looking at the older way to configure them or some seriously complex operation from another user. Apex Fusion allows you to adjust the flow patterns of all 0-10V equipment right in the graph UI seen here:

I was referring to having to program multiple wave profiles and the need to create virtual outlets. I've attached a tiny part of the coding needed for this. There has to be an easier way to program this wave than having to do all of this. The flexibility of provides is awesome but it's just not easy to do

 

[reefwiser]

Terence, the new Powerbar 5.1 offers 5 switchable sockets, one of which can also be dimmed. An additional 6th outlet with permanent power (e.g. for ProfiLux, pumps or lights) I have 3 of the 6d powerbars it has 6 circuits that can be switched independently. GHL also makes 4 switchable and two switchable powerbars. They also have powerhub that has 6 switchable connections and can be mounted on a DIN rail for real space saving installations. They make their power bars for all the various voltages around the world too. As you know that is no small task.

 

[Terence]

Terence, the new Powerbar 5.1 offers 5 switchable sockets, one of which can also be dimmed. An additional 6th outlet with permanent power (e.g. for ProfiLux, pumps or lights) I have 3 of the 6d powerbars it has 6 circuits that can be switched independently. GHL also makes 4 switchable and two switchable powerbars. They also have powerhub that has 6 switchable connections and can be mounted on a DIN rail for real space saving installations. They make their power bars for all the various voltages around the world too. As you know that is no small task.

The thread asked for comparisons so I think the power bar comparison (Apex vs profilux) is a good place to do that objectively - their high level offering and value.

In comparison of power control, the new Apex comes with the Energy Bar 832. This new Energy Bar has 8 outlets all with relays with our rating of 7A on each. (By regulation no power distribution device is allowed to do more than 15A in total). Each of these outlets has Full power monitoring of watts, amps, and volts. Measuring in watts is important and it is not just as simple as multiplying volts and amps. Watts is the true power value you care about. One additional thing present in the Energy Bar 832 is that it has five more D.C. Outlets (3 1Link and 2 basic 24v) with 100watts of power available via its own built in power supply. This means if you have our DOS dosing system, our WAV power heads, or our upcoming COR return pump you can plug it right in with no additional clunky power supply brick. The two DC24 accessory ports can be used for other accessories like our PMUP utility pump, our solenoid valve, future accessories, or BYO DIY devices

So in comparison to the PB5.1 the EB832 has 60% more controllable AC outlets, five more DC Outlets, less footprint per outlet, less power supply bricks and wires should you choose to use our accessories. Cost is $249 ($30 more than the PB5.1).

Or, you also have available the Energy Bar 8 for $160 but it does not have the power monitoring or the DC outlets but it comes in at $50 less than the PB5.1.

 

[TheEngineer]

I sent a note to GHL on Facebook with a link to this thread. I hope they join in! Anyone know how to reach Digital Aquatics? I can email Roberto from Reef Angel too.