BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[TheEngineer]

Measuring power per outlet is a cool feature. Does Apex and GHL offer historical info for power draw? If so, how far back? Maybe show a historical average? You could track when a pump is getting dirty perhaps or when a reactor isn't flowing properly.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

The thread asked for comparisons so I think the power bar comparison (Apex vs profilux) is a good place to do that objectively - their high level offering and value.

In comparison of power control, the new Apex comes with the Energy Bar 832. This new Energy Bar has 8 outlets all with relays with our rating of 7A on each. (By regulation no power distribution device is allowed to do more than 15A in total). Each of these outlets has Full power monitoring of watts, amps, and volts. Measuring in watts is important and it is not just as simple as multiplying volts and amps. Watts is the true power value you care about. One additional thing present in the Energy Bar 832 is that it has five more D.C. Outlets (3 1Link and 2 basic 24v) with 100watts of power available via its own built in power supply. This means if you have our DOS dosing system, our WAV power heads, or our upcoming COR return pump you can plug it right in with no additional clunky power supply brick. The two DC24 accessory ports can be used for other accessories like our PMUP utility pump, our solenoid valve, future accessories, or BYO DIY devices

So in comparison to the PB5.1 the EB832 has 60% more controllable AC outlets, five more DC Outlets, less footprint per outlet, less power supply bricks and wires should you choose to use our accessories. Cost is $249 ($30 more than the PB5.1).

Or, you also have available the Energy Bar 8 for $160 but it does not have the power monitoring or the DC outlets but it comes in at $50 less than the PB5.1.

Thanks for your helpful comparison @Terence. This is precisely the kind of info I'm hoping people are getting in this thread. @hybridazn and I have been talking quite a bit about some of the new upgrades to Apex (he's an avid Apex fan and has been quite the knowledge base for me as I'm comparing systems and thinking through what I'll want to pick up). I'm hoping he'll come in to talk about why he prefers Apex with some comparison thoughts. The additional outlets on the power bars is certainly a very helpful feature!

 

[Terence]

Measuring power per outlet is a cool feature. Does Apex and GHL offer historical info for power draw? If so, how far back? Maybe show a historical average? You could track when a pump is getting dirty perhaps or when a reactor isn't flowing properly.

There is a daily power log used to see your daily power consumption by hour and by device. First up is the total power used (it also factors in your cost per kwh). Remember, you pay by watts, not amps, and due to power factor there is not guaranteed a direct correlation - so you need to see the watts.

Next you can compare different devices and their costs throughout the day.

Next you can also compare the power of any outlet to any other outlet over a time scale of a week, going back three months.

You can also see the side by side current power draw and daily costs (if it were run 24hrs) on a dashboard tile.

There is also this view:

 

[Terence]

BTW, you can see here that it costs a ton of money to run a reef tank in CA

 

[DarkSky]

Thats pretty neat, I may have to pick one up and play with it.

One minor question, why orange?!

 

[TheEngineer]

There is a daily power log used to see your daily power consumption by hour and by device. First up is the total power used (it also factors in your cost per kwh). Remember, you pay by watts, not amps, and due to power factor there is not guaranteed a direct correlation - so you need to see the watts.

Next you can compare different devices and their costs throughout the day.

Next you can also compare the power of any outlet to any other outlet over a time scale of a week, going back three months.

You can also see the side by side current power draw and daily costs (if it were run 24hrs) on a dashboard tile.

There is also this view:

Very cool! I'm a data nerd so the more detail the better Can you do any custom analysis of the information?

 

[Terence]

Of course you can set alert trigger values for any outlet so if something is performing outside of its normal electrical envelope, you will know. Here is an example of one I have on my skimmer pump:

You can also use these values in the programming as well so that you can shut down a device if it were malfunctioning, or turn on a back up device if you sensed some piece of equipment had died.

 

[Terence]

One minor question, why orange?!

Orange is the new Black.

 

[Terence]

Very cool! I'm a data nerd so the more detail the better Can you do any custom analysis of the information?

Much of our raw data is available via XML. I am going to go out on a limb here because I have never looked into this and I am writing this from home. Since the power consumption is by definition one of our "inputs", it should be in that data set that you can pull down at will and do with it what you wish.

We try and straddle the line between geekdom and ease-of-use so usually we will lean toward ease-of-use when it comes to not embedding these kinds of things in the interface and confusing people.

 

[DarkSky]

Orange is the new Black.

Well I walked right into that one.

 

[Terence]

Well I walked right into that one.

 

[DarkSky]

So Cerebra just announced a Gen 2 version of their controller. It addresses a number of complaints that I listed in my review.

Everyone that has a Gen 1 unit will receive a Gen 2 at no cost.

I'm excited!!

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

So Cerebra just announced a Gen 2 version of their controller. It addresses a number of complaints that I listed in my review.

Everyone that has a Gen 1 unit will receive a Gen 2 at no cost.

I'm excited!!

Awesome! Maybe tag them and have them jump into the thread and compare the Gen1 to Gen2!

 

[MaiReef]

I am looking for the best as I worked with computers for over 15 years and do not want to have to tweak anything to work(tired of it)...

Reporting should be as easy as full reports in simple diagnostics sent to an email(like OnStar on a schedule chosen by the user) or reports put in a more pertinent alert text. Neither of which are that difficult in programming.

EMAIL: [email protected]
PHONE for TEXT Alerts:111-555-2222
Frequency and/or importance level...
BOOM done.

Check boxes on each item you would like an alert on and what is monitored.

More outlets should be very inexpensive as I want all of my electronics minimally on/off controlled.

I like some features of each that I looked at, but I am dumb and would like things to be simplified.

I am not buying a controller that I have to program.
That should have already been done by the programmers. Updates in the software for each piece of hardware(that works with the system, should be just about all hardware including the less expensive selections, like Jecod)should be released upon its release and the consumer should get it for free.

If anyone knows the closest controller please let me know.

Separate question.
Any of them run LINUX?

Leaning towards the GHL, but any are options.

 

[d2mini]

So if I'm understanding correctly...
The energy bar sockets can handle half the power. 7A vs 15A. And startup spikes? The 5.1 sockets are able to withstand even up to 160 A for a short while.
The EB components are not UL certified, and are they fire retardant?
They measure watts as well as amps, which honestly I see no need for either. But thats just me.
They take up more space but if using apex accessories you don't have additional power supply bricks.

What I'm getting out of this, for my purposes and use, is more outlets vs a more industrial build.
Also, what if the power supply goes on the energy bar?
I can plug my doser into any wall outlet and it will still be controlled by the Profilux.

We're talking about the heart of the system, not just some toy. One little malfunction can cost you thousands of dollars in livestock and years of hard work. Absolutely devastating.
I don't personally have experience with every one of the controllers in this thread, but I have some, and I've seen a lot over the years.
Power bars catching fire, dosers going haywire overnight, controllers locking up with sockets in the on position...
Nothing is 100% immune to failure, but I'll take the utmost in reliability with seemingly bullet proof hardware/firmware/software over showy graphs/interface and a few extra frills any day. Even if it costs a little more or takes slightly longer to set up.
But hey... that's just me! Others may have different priorities.

BTW, I'm sure GHL has seen this thread without someone contacting them. And IMO, kudos for them staying out of it. That says a lot.
I've seen what happens when multiple manufacturers get into threads like this.
Let the users speak for the products.

 

[Waterjockey]

I can only compare the Apex to a semi-diy. When I first considered a controller, my thought was to buy a small PLC and program it myself. I ended up buying the Apex classic almost three years ago. I would never have done such a slick user interface with the "cloud" ability, built in 0-10V ports, plug n play expansion, etc...and I do a lot of stuff with it from my phone. Do other controllers have the "multi-user" setups like the Apex does? Where you can add a user and give them various levels of control? I have programmed other peoples apex systems "remotely" while sitting on my couch enjoying a beverage, with a few texts back and forth with the owner.....this speaks to the large user-base of support, which is very valuable imho.

 

[Waterjockey]

I am looking for the best as I worked with computers for over 15 years and do not want to have to tweak anything to work(tired of it)...

Reporting should be as easy as full reports in simple diagnostics sent to an email(like OnStar on a schedule chosen by the user) or reports put in a more pertinent alert text. Neither of which are that difficult in programming.

EMAIL: [email protected]
PHONE for TEXT Alerts:111-555-2222
Frequency and/or importance level...
BOOM done.

Check boxes on each item you would like an alert on and what is monitored.

More outlets should be very inexpensive as I want all of my electronics minimally on/off controlled.

I like some features of each that I looked at, but I am dumb and would like things to be simplified.

I am not buying a controller that I have to program.
That should have already been done by the programmers. Updates in the software for each piece of hardware(that works with the system, should be just about all hardware including the less expensive selections, like Jecod)should be released upon its release and the consumer should get it for free.

If anyone knows the closest controller please let me know.

Separate question.
Any of them run LINUX?

Leaning towards the GHL, but any are options.

It's not that you *have* to program anything with the Apex, it's that you "can" program additional stuff. The Apex comes with heater, chiller, return pump, skimmer, lights, feeder etc stuff already "programmed" in. Just plug the equipment into the appropriate outlet, set the temperatures, or times to what you want and you can call it done if you like. Most of the threads you see on "programming", are really just people configuring the system to their liking, or adding whatever feature they can dream up.
Alerts are that easy. Plug in your email address or phone number, and add what alerts you would like to the alert tab.."boom" done.
I don't think the outlets are expensive for programmable outlets from anywhere in the world. I use "WION" outlets around my yard and home. These are wifi outlets that allow you to put multiple timers or remote on/off functions on. (i.e., I can turn my deck lights, pond waterfall, etc from my phone). They are $40 each. 8 outlets would be $320. An 8 outlet "energy bar" is far less expensive than that.
I have never paid for a software update for my Apex, but even better than that, they automatically update the fusion software. Most often, people buy electronic equipment, set it up an forget about it. The manufacturer may release multiple updates (like say a router), but people never check if updates are available or install them. I find out what updates and additional features are added to fusion, when I log into my favorite sites (like R2R) and find out "Hey, by the way, we added a feature (like heartbeat) to your fusion interface, so you will be notified automatically if the system goes down"...I don't have to do anything, it's already been done automatically by the folks at Neptune.

 

[MaiReef]

It's not that you *have* to program anything with the Apex, it's that you "can" program additional stuff. The Apex comes with heater, chiller, return pump, skimmer, lights, feeder etc stuff already "programmed" in. Just plug the equipment into the appropriate outlet, set the temperatures, or times to what you want and you can call it done if you like. Most of the threads you see on "programming", are really just people configuring the system to their liking, or adding whatever feature they can dream up.
Alerts are that easy. Plug in your email address or phone number, and add what alerts you would like to the alert tab.."boom" done.
I don't think the outlets are expensive for programmable outlets from anywhere in the world. I use "WION" outlets around my yard and home. These are wifi outlets that allow you to put multiple timers or remote on/off functions on. (i.e., I can turn my deck lights, pond waterfall, etc from my phone). They are $40 each. 8 outlets would be $320. An 8 outlet "energy bar" is far less expensive than that.
I have never paid for a software update for my Apex, but even better than that, they automatically update the fusion software. Most often, people buy electronic equipment, set it up an forget about it. The manufacturer may release multiple updates (like say a router), but people never check if updates are available or install them. I find out what updates and additional features are added to fusion, when I log into my favorite sites (like R2R) and find out "Hey, by the way, we added a feature (like heartbeat) to your fusion interface, so you will be notified automatically if the system goes down"...I don't have to do anything, it's already been done automatically by the folks at Neptune.

Thank you. That is what I didn't quite understand. So can valves be opened and closed based upon pH(other parameters) and flow?

 

[Waterjockey]

Thank you. That is what I didn't quite understand. So can valves be opened and closed based upon pH(other parameters) and flow?

You're welcome!

pH and other parameters (temperature, orp, time, other events you select), yes. But at this time, not flow. I don't know if any aquarium controller has flow control right now (this thread is supposed to be about what is currently available to purchase, not stuff "in the works", which apex and possibly others have in development).

 

[Lloydxmas]

So Cerebra just announced a Gen 2 version of their controller. It addresses a number of complaints that I listed in my review.

Everyone that has a Gen 1 unit will receive a Gen 2 at no cost.

I'm excited!!

I just read this on the cerebra forum. Wow!