Bolus dosing

[Garf]

Frag garage got a youtube vid with Claude in a bit.

Edit - broadcast had technical issues, so don't bother looking for it.

 

[Pod_01]

I am not disagreeing. I am however confused I guess. Isnt it typically thought bad to increase alk by more than 1.4dkh at one time? I understand afr I use it and I dose the entire dose at one time, but that is "slow release" alk. Carb and bicarb should act immediately, Right? Its formate that has to be "digested".

That there the Alk stability, I used to be on that band wagon.

Then I got KH director and found out the KH is not that stable. Read some more and other reefer seen the same. Corals are still alive so there is some flexibility. Not sure how much etc…

With FM Kh it appears there is lag, but there is not a good explanation. Might be
bad measurement, bad KH director, maybe the additives make it act like AFR…

 

[Pod_01]

Probably the false claims, scare tactics, and fear mongering like “old tank syndrome” and “this is the process of rectifying the damage that has been done to the buffer system.”

Yup not sure about either one, I don’t think FM strength is in the “Why” things work.
I think they are good at empirical data, we did this and got this.
Just my opinion.

 

[twentyleagues]

That there the Alk stability, I used to be on that band wagon.

Then I got KH director and found out the KH is not that stable. Read some more and other reefer seen the same. Corals are still alive so there is some flexibility. Not sure how much etc…

With FM Kh it appears there is lag, but there is not a good explanation. Might be
bad measurement, bad KH director, maybe the additives make it act like AFR…

I have seen multiple posts on this across multiple forums lately (obviously). Some are not using FM products and still going for it. Years ago I had a mental slip and dosed my 2 part alk 2 times saw immediate issues with a few corals and it was probably only 2dkh. I get within a certain range it wont/shouldnt be an issue but if you need to dose 2+dkh that scares me. I dont understand why it doesn't worry more people they just jump on the band wagon. Its gotta be me....

 

[Superlightman]

Per se they are not selling anything with Bolus.
They are telling their customers how to use their product so you get most out of it. They released HTU “How to Use.

What exactly makes it ridiculous? Just curious?

For example AFR can be dosed in one shot…

If you think they have nothing to sell then read this post again since the beginning.. It is a big marketing for them, Claude even claim he deserve the price for the best marketing of the year. Wich is probably true when we see all the hipe this generated, he did that well

 

[Pod_01]

If you think they have nothing to sell then read this post again since the beginning.

That is a silly statement to make. FM is a supplier of reef products and corals, so of course they have things to sell. Saying anything else is silly.

Bolus tells you how to get the most out of the product, or potentially most out of the products they sell or sold to their customers.

Since I am using FM KH I didn’t purchase anything new or different. If there are people who run out and buy FM KH just because of the announcement,
well in that case you are right, Claude is the best salesman since Steven Jobs/ Elon Musk. Let’s be honest Claude is the face of FM.

Regardless this is a circular argument about the obvious that is not getting anywhere.

Personally I am interested in knowing how and why this works or why it doesn’t work.

Randy explained why this doesn’t work as per FM explanation.
We got alternative hypothesis that it may work like AFR due to the observed delay in Alk release.
I am curious to see what happens when people use clean bicarbonate as was mentioned …

 

[Garf]

A bit late but read the HTU guide. What on earth is this rapid alkalinity depletion when the lights go out thing about? How does photosynthesis keep the alkalinity up?

 

[Yazannreef]

Hello everyone,

I'm actually testing this bolus DKH method with aquaforest component B. just started few days ago so i'm gonna keep continuing the test and see if it yeild any positive results I can report. I have a Mastertronic that can test DKH right before the bolus dose. right after the bolus dose when I ramp up my lights. then a constant point in the day to test if alk consumption stays the same throughout a 24h period. if you guys are interested in following along you are more than welcome. I will post here with updates.

so far tested my alk roughly 24h after the dose and the alk consumption stayed around the same .


My tank currently consumes 0.5dkh in 24h period and so I went ahead and dosed 50ml of component B (Bicarbonate with trace) and my consumption stayed at 50ml for 0.5dkh consumed:

I'm going to set up my Alk testing 30min before the dose and 30min after the bolus dose as I didnt have that set up yet.

 

[Garf]

Hello everyone,

I'm actually testing this bolus DKH method with aquaforest component B. just started few days ago so i'm gonna keep continuing the test and see if it yeild any positive results I can report. I have a Mastertronic that can test DKH right before the bolus dose. right after the bolus dose when I ramp up my lights. then a constant point in the day to test if alk consumption stays the same throughout a 24h period. if you guys are interested in following along you are more than welcome. I will post here with updates.

so far tested my alk roughly 24h after the dose and the alk consumption stayed around the same .


My tank currently consumes 0.5dkh in 24h period and so I went ahead and dosed 50ml of component B (Bicarbonate with trace) and my consumption stayed at 50ml for 0.5dkh consumed:

I'm going to set up my Alk testing 30min before the dose and 30min after the bolus dose as I didnt have that set up yet.

Fauna Marin specifically states to NOT attempt this without the Fauna Marin product. Although I doubt 0.5 DKH would be an issue anyway. Have you increased your light?

 

[Yazannreef]

Fauna Marin specifically states to NOT attempt this without the Fauna Marin product. Although I doubt 0.5 DKH would be an issue anyway. Have you increased your light?

Fauna Marin are trying to sell thier products and I'm not falling for that. I 'm using what I have which is similar if not the same, Bicarb with trace. really nothing special about that.

In terms of light increase yes I I'm testing it with that as well:

between 8:45am and 9:08am I am increasing the white lights by 10% :

 

[Pod_01]

Fauna Marin are trying to sell thier products and I'm not falling for that. I 'm using what I have which is similar if not the same, Bicarb with trace. really nothing special about that.

In terms of light increase yes I I'm testing it with that as well:

between 8:45am and 9:08am I am increasing the white lights by 10% :

Keep us posted, I am especially interested in knowing what you measure 1 hour after the dose and 6 hours later.

 

[Yazannreef]

I like the idea of dosing in Bolus but I believe where Fauna marin went wrong is claiming that its their method and it only works with their product. also I didn't like the fact that they were talking down about the competitors. they could have just said that the method work based on their testing that was only concluded via their product. One can only claim that other company product wont work unless they actually tested them all and found that true. Just saying!

 

[Yazannreef]

Keep us posted, I am especially interested in knowing what you measure 1 hour after the dose and 6 hours later.

yup I'm programing that on my Mastertronic as we speak

 

[Pod_01]

A bit late but read the HTU guide. What on earth is this rapid alkalinity depletion when the lights go out thing about? How does photosynthesis keep the alkalinity up?

I suspect they are referring to this behaviour:

This is from my tank, measurements are from yesterday using FM KH.
At 6am Alk was 7.7dkh
I dosed approximately 1.5 dKh at 7 am (FM KH)
At noon Alk was 8.1 dkh
At 6 pm Alk was 8.1 dKh
At midnight Alk went down to 8 dkh
And at 6am next morning it was 7.9 dkh.

They are referring to that drop from 6pm to 6 am.

As for photosynthesis doing this, maybe if it acts like AFR and bacteria/corals need to make it available!!! Otherwise I don’t know…

Tank is still alive:

 

[Garf]

I suspect they are referring to this behaviour:

This is from my tank, measurements are from yesterday using FM KH.
At 6am Alk was 7.7dkh
I dosed approximately 1.5 dKh at 7 am (FM KH)
At noon Alk was 8.1 dkh
At 6 pm Alk was 8.1 dKh
At midnight Alk went down to 8 dkh
And at 6am next morning it was 7.9 dkh.

They are referring to that drop from 6pm to 6 am.

As for photosynthesis doing this, maybe if it acts like AFR and bacteria/corals need to make it available!!! Otherwise I don’t know…

Tank is still alive:

If they have created some sort of wonderous chemical, surely there are bigger markets than reefing. Claude therefore should be sacked, lol.

 

[Carni_Vora]

So late last night it seem to have droped 0.5DKH.
i have not been increasing the dose the last few days because it looked stable at 7.7DKH

It dropped from 7.7DKH at 19:30 to 7.2DKH at 07:30 the next morning just before the bolus dose.
I put this consumption in the calculator and added the extra amount to the dose.

The bolus dose starts at 08:05 and runs for a few minutes
I took a water sample right before the dose starts and of 1 min after the dose has finished

amount dosed 250ML of FM Balling light should be around the 2.3DKH

30-5-2024
7.7DKH at 00:37
7.7DKH at 19:30

31-5-2024
7.2DKH at 07:30
7.2DKH at 07:58
7.8DKH at 08:11 (1 min after the dose had finished)
8.1DKH at 08:15
8.1DKH at 08:22 (Lights come on at 08:30)
7.9DKH at 08:59
7.7DKH at 09:30
7.7DKH at 10:00
7.7DKH at 13:30

If you measure alk for Bolus dosing and potentially correction you test once a day and that's at the end of the photosynthetic period - lights out.

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

I believe the lines around 'only use this with FM Balling Light' are aimed as a safety warning towards those who currently dose a carbonate or hysroxide based solution. Dosing that in one entire lump would lead to disaster and likely a tank wipe out with a huge pH spike!

We've also established that the 'table top' Alk curve method is reflected in its behaviour by myself and others in this thread with auto kh testers as per the FM HTU..

It also appears the kh solution is bicarbonate based, as they state, due to the pH of the solution when mixed. And now have Yazzann testing this with his AF bicarb.

I saw on ReefBums recent stream with Mike Paletta and Sanjay that Mike is running the Bolus method too for some time and is reporting good findings inline with myself and others.

Looks like the Frag Garage stream is now tonight UK and EU/Saturday day time for US.

 

[Carni_Vora]

I believe the lines around 'only use this with FM Balling Light' are aimed as a safety warning towards those who currently dose a carbonate or hysroxide based solution. Dosing that in one entire lump would lead to disaster and likely a tank wipe out with a huge pH spike!

We've also established that the 'table top' Alk curve method is reflected in its behaviour by myself and others in this thread with auto kh testers as per the FM HTU..

It also appears the kh solution is bicarbonate based, as they state, due to the pH of the solution when mixed. And now have Yazzann testing this with his AF bicarb.

I saw on ReefBums recent stream with Mike Paletta and Sanjay that Mike is running the Bolus method too for some time and is reporting good findings inline with myself and others.

Looks like the Frag Garage stream is now tonight UK and EU/Saturday day time for US.

FM how to Bolus

Here are the claims from FM regarding the use of their product, page 24. They ask people to use FM products but only advise against using anything carbonat based.

I started to give it a try 2 days ago mainly because of this thread. Haven't tested anything so far, tank looks good. I'll give it a week or two and will start to test to see if my results match what FM claims or not.

 

[chris_ek]

Hello everyone,

I'm actually testing this bolus DKH method with aquaforest component B. just started few days ago so i'm gonna keep continuing the test and see if it yeild any positive results I can report. I have a Mastertronic that can test DKH right before the bolus dose. right after the bolus dose when I ramp up my lights. then a constant point in the day to test if alk consumption stays the same throughout a 24h period. if you guys are interested in following along you are more than welcome. I will post here with updates.

so far tested my alk roughly 24h after the dose and the alk consumption stayed around the same .


My tank currently consumes 0.5dkh in 24h period and so I went ahead and dosed 50ml of component B (Bicarbonate with trace) and my consumption stayed at 50ml for 0.5dkh consumed:

I'm going to set up my Alk testing 30min before the dose and 30min after the bolus dose as I didnt have that set up yet.

Hi Yazannreef, do you also measure pH and could you show us the results?

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

FM how to Bolus

Here are the claims from FM regarding the use of their product, page 24. They ask people to use FM products but only advise against using anything carbonat based.

I started to give it a try 2 days ago mainly because of this thread. Haven't tested anything so far, tank looks good. I'll give it a week or two and will start to test to see if my results match what FM claims or not.

Yes, it is advised to use FM Balling Light (what manufacturer would tell you to use another brand?) as they state that the traces contained in Trace3 added to KH lends itself well to Bolus.

But, the only they they clearly state NOT to do, for obvious reasons is try this with carbonates or hydroxides.

My findings over almost 4 months are logged on the previous page.