Boomer's IM 20G Nano

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Phyto feeds dinos FYI. I recommend holding off until you beat the dinos. I’m not fully caught up on your thread but will give most of it a read. Dinos suck.

Do you think live phyto feeds dinos? My experience has been live phyto and bacteria additions beat/out compete dinos (rather rapidly). But i suppose this may depend on what strain of dinos (my understanding is that there are like hundreds of strains.. and several common to aquariums) and the kind of phyto (I like reef nutrition the best by far as it is MANY TIMES more concentrated than the typical green water). When i grow phyto i always wonder if all the fertiziler has been used up on not. But with reef nutrition--they must centerfuge because you literally get nearly a paste of phyto (instead of liquid) its so thick and concentrated....

@Boomer: The reset is a good time to re-check all of your equipment. Make sure your salinity probes, refractomers are accurate, test kits are new/have new re-agent, etc.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Flow is important too.... make sure you can crank (with broad flow) when needed. You can't see them in the pic, cause their black and hide against black back wall, but this 50 gallon has 3 MP-40's in the back. I have a few hours of the night where they kick on pretty good for say 40-50% flow (which is a ton is this small tank). I think that helps corals stay happy and helps prevent nuisance algae by preventing detritus accumulation. If bare bottom, that will help too. Have fun with the reset! I think it's actually pretty exciting for you--like a new tank and beginning. Instant message me when your ready and i'll send you a large frag of hardy gorgonian and some GSP (if you want that coral).

 

[happyhourhero]

I

Do you think live phyto feeds dinos? My experience has been live phyto and bacteria additions beat/out compete dinos (rather rapidly). But i suppose this may depend on what strain of dinos (my understanding is that there are like hundreds of strains.. and several common to aquariums) and the kind of phyto (I like reef nutrition the best by far as it is MANY TIMES more concentrated than the typical green water). When i grow phyto i always wonder if all the fertiziler has been used up on not. But with reef nutrition--they must centerfuge because you literally get nearly a paste of phyto (instead of liquid) its so thick and concentrated....

@Boomer: The reset is a good time to re-check all of your equipment. Make sure your salinity probes, refractomers are accurate, test kits are new/have new re-agent, etc.

I find that for ostreopsis, they feed on Phyto and it greatly affects their numbers. I could start dosing Phyto now on my tank and see dinos within a couple of days but see none otherwise. I have only tried one brand of Phyto tho. In the big Dino thread it’s understood to not dose Phyto or aminos when you have dinos present.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I

I find that for ostreopsis, they feed on Phyto and it greatly affects their numbers. I could start dosing Phyto now on my tank and see dinos within a couple of days but see none otherwise. I have only tried one brand of Phyto tho. In the big Dino thread it’s understood to not dose Phyto or aminos when you have dinos present.

That's interesting. Not my (limited) experience though. I had a bad dino outbreak last fall and then a short one when i moved a 20 gallon to a new 50 gallon. In both cases, i dosed so much live phyto that the water turned green for hours. Probably 1/4 ounce two or three times a day of reef nutrition... That's concentrated stuff. In conjunction with microbacter seven, getting nutrients in a commonly accepted range, UV, and a macro algae refugium, the dinos died off pretty quickly.

I guess it could have anyone of those things, or the combo, that helped.

Aminos, on the other hand, definitely did increase the dinos... totally agree with that statement!

I saw that in my coral QT tank when it had an outbreak when starting it up. Large doses of live phyto seemed to beat it back on that little QT tank too though. No UV there then...

That said all said--i am no expert and there is a lot going on in these tanks that we only know so little about... Dinos are crazy! One day they drive you insane--then they vanish almost as quick as they came on... And if dosing live phyto does not help in a particular tank, i would say it is definitely worth not dosing live phyto to see if there is a change/improvement... All you can do try things in any given situation and try to single out causes and cures..

 

[Aqua Man]

But with reef nutrition--they must centerfuge because you literally get nearly a paste of phyto (instead of liquid) its so thick and concentrated....

Pretty sure the paste is not live phyto. Still serves a purpose and is a good product. If dosing a tank with Dino, I would prefer the phyto to be alive.

find that for ostreopsis, they feed on Phyto and it greatly affects their numbers. I could start dosing Phyto now on my tank and see dinos within a couple of days but see none otherwise. I have only tried one brand of Phyto tho. In the big Dino thread it’s understood to not dose Phyto or aminos when you have dinos present.

I still continued to dose Live phyto at a modest amount when battling Osteoporosis. The phyto was home brewed though.

 

[Nick Steele]

Phyto feeds dinos FYI. I recommend holding off until you beat the dinos. I’m not fully caught up on your thread but will give most of it a read. Dinos suck.

I’m with @Mywifeisgunnakillme when I started to does reef nutritions live phytofeast it seemed to lower my dino. This was after doing uv, dosing phos and nitrates and even a rip clean (which helped for a week or so then Dino’s showed back up.

This also reminds me I need to get more phyto my last one went bad when I went on a one week vacation.

 

[happyhourhero]

Glad that Phyto worked for you! I bought it for the same but only tried the one source that I won’t name because my experience could be for unrelated variables and I don’t think it’s a bad product.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Pretty sure the paste is not live phyto.

I still continued to dose Live phyto at a modest amount when battling Osteoporosis. The phyto was home brewed though.

The paste-like phyto from reef nutrition that says "live" on it is 100% live.

https://reefnutrition.com/products/phytofeastlive

It's just been centrifuged (i think/assume) or the like so that it is VERY concentrated. Maybe 500 times more concentrated then green water. It's almost a paste for sure. What i like about that also is that most of the fertilizer solution has been separated from the phyto.

I make my own phyto too. I also wonder if the fertlizer has been used up once i store. I guess we could test for nitrate and phosphate, but i had not done so. Also the amount of phyto in home brew is much less, exponentially, not sure if that matters.

The recipe i have followed for the last three new tanks i have set up is preferably live rock, shallow sand or no sand (frag tanks, etc), lots of bacteria, lots of live phyto (coral qt and frag tank i have went light on all additions as small corals), macro-algae refugium from the get go (no macro for coral qt and frag tank though), tons of (more hardy) corals as soon as any cycle is done, fish quickly as well... I also use UV sometimes at start up and sometimes later. All of these tanks had ugly periods and dinos, but less than 3 weeks of it. The 50 gallon was mere days.

Here is coral qt, algae and dino free:

 

[boomeraudio]

Flow is important too.... make sure you can crank (with broad flow) when needed. You can't see them in the pic, cause their black and hide against black back wall, but this 50 gallon has 3 MP-40's in the back. I have a few hours of the night where they kick on pretty good for say 40-50% flow (which is a ton is this small tank). I think that helps corals stay happy and helps prevent nuisance algae by preventing detritus accumulation. If bare bottom, that will help too. Have fun with the reset! I think it's actually pretty exciting for you--like a new tank and beginning. Instant message me when your ready and i'll send you a large frag of hardy gorgonian and some GSP (if you want that coral).

Thank you!

Just had a busy busy week and was on vacation the week prior. Removed some of the sand already last water change GSP has started growing on the back of the tank again (thought it was dead) and the candy cane's tissue has started coming back as well.

Something is going right. I've had to dose NO3 and PO4 recently to keep around 6ppm nitrate and 0.1ppm phosphate.

Also had a cyano outbreak on the rocks and part of sand...seems to be one thing after the next ha ha. Chemiclean cleared that up and I'm doing a water change for that tonight.

I also added the bio-balls after soaking in MicroBacter7 which has seemed to have helped A TON.

Seems like a lot, but it's working - Fish are happy, Coral is happy and regrowing. Should I wait on the rip clean to see how this weekend goes and see if dinos pop back up? Right now the sand is crystal clear. (see pic)

 

[boomeraudio]

Update for beginning of September.

Tank is still doing well. Figured out that the dinos in the sand are amphidinium that strictly live in the sand and don't release into the water column but back into the sand. This means a UV sterilizer won't do the trick.

Going to turn off the whites on the AI Prime and just run a blue. I have dosed everything from NeoNItro/NeoPhos to Mirobacter7 to Phyto. I'm also going to try the silica dosing method with MicroBacter7 to try and induce a diatom bloom. This will hopefully outcompete the dinos. I've also removed my skimmer cup so that the dosing of NeoNitro/NeoPhos will actually work to level out at Nitrate 5-10ppm & Phosphate .05-.1ppm.

Added a couple more specimens to the tank including an Orange Spotted Goby and a Bi-Color Blenny. They are happy and enjoying the tank. The clowns were not aggressive at all when I added them to the tank which was nice.

I've started to see a significant amount of coraline algae growth on my rocks which is a good sign, maybe we're taking a turn for maturity! I'm going to wait out the dino battle before adding any more coral, then I'll stock it up.

Finally, the rock work seems to have a small hair type algae growing on it that I can brush off I attached a pic - can anyone ID? Just curious what it is. It's not green - it's like a light brown or grayish color, the picture isn't offering the true color of it.

Back with more as this tank continues to mature. Hopefully next update will have addition of coral.

 

[boomeraudio]

Whelp - Goby is nowhere to be found hah. Aside from taking out the rock to look, I'm not sure what to do. Any thoughts? Saw him before bed one night and the next morning, gone. Cant see him anywhere. No possible way for him to jump, have the top covered with mesh. It wasn't floating around dead anywhere. This Is wild lol.

Blenny is doing fantastic - getting less shy by the day!

 

[Nick Steele]

Maybe he’s just hiding very good. Is there any chance he got into the return chambers?

 

[boomeraudio]

Maybe he’s just hiding very good. Is there any chance he got into the return chambers?

Nope not in there - either hiding or dead, one of the two lol. Guess time will tell?

The Dino's are really bad again...treating with DinoX. Am I literally the only person on this planet that has had them for this long? My thread is now me fighting dino's for the last 2 years versus building an enjoyable reef tank hah.

 

[Danroo]

Nope not in there - either hiding or dead, one of the two lol. Guess time will tell?

The Dino's are really bad again...treating with DinoX. Am I literally the only person on this planet that has had them for this long? My thread is now me fighting dino's for the last 2 years versus building an enjoyable reef tank hah.

Did the UV sterilizer worked in reducing dinos?

 

[sh@rkB@it]

Nope not in there - either hiding or dead, one of the two lol. Guess time will tell?

The Dino's are really bad again...treating with DinoX. Am I literally the only person on this planet that has had them for this long? My thread is now me fighting dino's for the last 2 years versus building an enjoyable reef tank hah.

I feel your pain. I battled dinos for nearly 12 months. Killed many corals and was a real pain in the butt. Here is what worked for me. I think it was a combination of things so I can't really tell you what specifically.

1. Stop doing water changes, water changes help dinos
2. Bought a couple of 1 micron filter socks
3. Brushed my rocks with a tooth brush
4. Siphoned my tank water into the filter sock into a 5 gallon bucket
5. Cleaned my rocks with a toothbrush
6. Poured the filtered water back into the tank, detritus and all kinds of crap will float in your tank
7. Repeat 4-6 as many times until the water in the tank is semi detritus free ( sometimes 10 times per session), do this every couple days, very important to mechanically remove as much as much as possible. Dinos can pass through 5 microns and even 1 micron but you'll get some of it out.
8. Lower your light intensity especially whites and only run for no more than 6 hours.
9. Raise your phosphate and nitrates up. Mine were 80ppm for NO3 and .5 for PO4 but I didn't have many corals at this time, so be careful raising and lowering PO4 too fast.
10. Added Fuana Marin Rebiotic. Followed instructions.
11. During a period of a month after doing the above, I started getting GHA and bryopsis, which was a good sign.
12. Eventually the dino's started to recede and the GHA and bryopis began to out compete the dinos
13. I only did 2 water changes over the course of 3 months.
14. I dosed fluco to treat the bryopsis, which took about 2 weeks. Follow the directions.
15. After the bryopsis subsided I started doing weekly water changes to gradually remove the fluco and to lower nitrates and phosphates.
16. I have been dino free for the past 6 months.

It's very important to not let your nutrients go down to zero for an extended period of time. Dose nitrates and phosphates if you have to. Better to feed your fish more but if you are feeding a ton and still have nearly zero nutrients it just means that the live rock is absorbing it so thats where dosing is fine.

If you have a skimmer, you may want to put it on a timer and only run it part of the day. No need to run your light intensity high if you only have soft and lps corals.

I have the same tank you have. I started with dry rocks and it's something I will never ever do again. Don't give up. Let your tank get dirty so stop doing water changes. Best of luck.

 

[boomeraudio]

Did the UV sterilizer worked in reducing dinos?

It didn't unfortunately. The dinos are mainly in the sand and recede into the sand at night.

I feel your pain. I battled dinos for nearly 12 months. Killed many corals and was a real pain in the butt. Here is what worked for me. I think it was a combination of things so I can't really tell you what specifically.

1. Stop doing water changes, water changes help dinos
2. Bought a couple of 1 micron filter socks
3. Brushed my rocks with a tooth brush
4. Siphoned my tank water into the filter sock into a 5 gallon bucket
5. Cleaned my rocks with a toothbrush
6. Poured the filtered water back into the tank, detritus and all kinds of crap will float in your tank
7. Repeat 4-6 as many times until the water in the tank is semi detritus free ( sometimes 10 times per session), do this every couple days, very important to mechanically remove as much as much as possible. Dinos can pass through 5 microns and even 1 micron but you'll get some of it out.
8. Lower your light intensity especially whites and only run for no more than 6 hours.
9. Raise your phosphate and nitrates up. Mine were 80ppm for NO3 and .5 for PO4 but I didn't have many corals at this time, so be careful raising and lowering PO4 too fast.
10. Added Fuana Marin Rebiotic. Followed instructions.
11. During a period of a month after doing the above, I started getting GHA and bryopsis, which was a good sign.
12. Eventually the dino's started to recede and the GHA and bryopis began to out compete the dinos
13. I only did 2 water changes over the course of 3 months.
14. I dosed fluco to treat the bryopsis, which took about 2 weeks. Follow the directions.
15. After the bryopsis subsided I started doing weekly water changes to gradually remove the fluco and to lower nitrates and phosphates.
16. I have been dino free for the past 6 months.

It's very important to not let your nutrients go down to zero for an extended period of time. Dose nitrates and phosphates if you have to. Better to feed your fish more but if you are feeding a ton and still have nearly zero nutrients it just means that the live rock is absorbing it so thats where dosing is fine.

If you have a skimmer, you may want to put it on a timer and only run it part of the day. No need to run your light intensity high if you only have soft and lps corals.

I have the same tank you have. I started with dry rocks and it's something I will never ever do again. Don't give up. Let your tank get dirty so stop doing water changes. Best of luck.

Wow this is spectacular information. The step by step really helps. I started with dry rock and I truly think that's the reason. I'm going to keep fighting for sure and look forward to a day when the tank is what I dreamed it can be.

Thank you for the advice. I've got my NO3 and PO4 where I need them to be, light intensity is down. Now I need to do the manual removal regularly like you said. Going to order some filter socks now.

Thank you again. I really appreciate it.

 

[boomeraudio]

Pulled out the rock work and couldn't fine the goby anywhere - might be in a rock hiding. The blenny did a really good job hiding in the rock work. Hope so, wasn't anywhere to be seen on the sand. Lots of detritus though, I'll definitely say that hah. Can't wait to start filtering this out through a sock over the next few days.

 

[Aqua Man]

Can't wait to start filtering this out through a sock over the next few days.

With a Rip clean you could be done in one day instead of many days. Rinse that sand, get all the Dino out at once.

@Nick Steele Your tank still doing better after a Rip clean?

 

[Nick Steele]

@Nick Steele Your tank still doing better after a Rip clean?

System was doing really well afterwards took about two weeks to get rid of all the algae that popped up with going from sand to bare bottom. I had wonderful growth from all corals for a few months. But I’ve since caught some type of acro pest (be taken care of now) that caused instability in my parameters and now I’m dealing with cyano and corals that receded and some loss.

Overall rip clean did wonders for my tank though and everything since then was my own fault.

 

[boomeraudio]

Prep work : 4-5, 5 gallon buckets. Have your needed salt water mixed up a day or 2 ahead. My preference is at least 2 days before a water change. Storage totes or a 20 gal brute are great containers for mixing up large batches of salt. Going to take a few hrs start to finish for the cleaning.

Rip clean day: BEFORE disturbing anything in the tank, rocks/sand, take out 4 gallons into one of the buckets. This will be for your fish, later. The idea is to keep the water for the fish as clean as possible.

Next bucket: Remove More water from tank without disturbing sand/rocks. This bucket is for rock/coral. If you can catch the fish, now is ok or wait until water is lower.

Half way there! At this point there are couple choices depending on how much new water is going to be replaced. 1, continue to drain tank without disturbing rocks/sand to keep water clean for rinsing and scrubbing. Good idea regardless
2 , if the plan is to change out almost all of the water and the fish have been caught, it’s ok to lift out the rocks now.

Finish draining tank as low as possible. Sand is tedious to remove. A little plastic shovel that kids use to play in the sand is ideal!! If not then a cup or whatever is handy! Or if you have a shop Vac, I’d use that! It works great for the last bit of water and sand.

It’s nice to have new clean saltwater for a final rinse of rocks after scrubbing in the old tank water. If you have any questions, we are here to help!


Good CUC is important in any tank! With a Nano we just don’t need a dozen snails. My 20 has 2 Astrea and 1 trochus.

Rip clean tomorrow. It’s time.

does this look like ich on my brand new blenny? The goby is gone. Stress from the shipping (4 days live aquaria / fed ex) must’ve done it.