Brand new, could use some help with cycling Info!

[Paulie069]

This is cycling 2020, some aquariums are simply ready and they transfer ready, thats how nearly all tanks at huge marine aquarium conventions get set up, without a cycle, successfully.

its not that you have to buy more things, bottle bac, or wait for testers to line up (they dont read right lots of times, we can see live threads today showing as much) you simply proceed on tanks like this one.

whatever you envisioned for the start of the tank/can do.

your thread is now on page one of the microbiology of cycling thread where we loathe aquarium test kits lol but relish cycling via inclusions.

What does all that mean

 

[brandon429]

he built an aquarium that does not need to cycle. theres a cycling thread called the microbiology of reef tank cycling that we put his work on page 1 because its an example of skipping the cycle.

 

[Paulie069]

What does all that mean

I’m sure you folks will get tired of my dumb questions but I’m a Reef virgin

 

[brandon429]

to sum up, he had wet sand which moved over from a bag of sand, that brought bacteria so we dont need to wait or add any. In addition, he bought live rocks that came from another reef tank, at the fish store, and transferred them home. so his tank is ready vs having to wait

if he bought all dry rocks and sand, he would approach preparing the tank differently and he could choose to use bottled bacteria which brings up dry systems to nearly instant start levels.

 

[Richie1898]

if you would buy some snails or a starter coral or whatever you wanted to add and update us, this thread can be made to be really useful in new upcoming cycle works

we have several examples of people skipping cycle time by using bottle bac, their systems were dry starts.

your example is live rock transfer skip cycling, the ends are the same for both your tanks though the rocks are different in origin (wet vs dry) and thats an amazing progression for today's cycling, we are barely closing the door on a firm rule that all reefers must wait for 30 days to start. its now possible to opt out of that former requirement.

I totally get what you’re saying, and yes basically just jumping into it. I did a great deal of research on everything before investing into my tank. I understand that people are able to entirely sustain a tank setup in one day, but I am not like that. “Any job big or small, do it right, or not at all” is my saying I hold true to. My goal is to create a small nano reef with maybe a couple clowns and some simple livestock. Obviously I cannot get too crazy as this is my first step into this world. And I do understand the length of time cycling takes for tanks initially. My intent to adding the bacteria was to help my tanks cycle and actually start the process efficiently. I do not want to just pop a few simple frags in and a couple fish and call it a day. I’d like to make sure everything is in top shape and set up for the long haul I.e. water changes and intense care as needed. I ordered a refugium kit from the algae barn as well to put in my first chamber. Basically I would just like to know what the initial signs of my cycle starting and progress are. Also when would algae start to come in so I could add a clean up crew and go from there.
I appreciate all your words of wisdom and help also!
Sincerely,
Richie

 

[Paulie069]

I totally get what you’re saying, and yes basically just jumping into it. I did a great deal of research on everything before investing into my tank. I understand that people are able to entirely sustain a tank setup in one day, but I am not like that. “Any job big or small, do it right, or not at all” is my saying I hold true to. My goal is to create a small nano reef with maybe a couple clowns and some simple livestock. Obviously I cannot get too crazy as this is my first step into this world. And I do understand the length of time cycling takes for tanks initially. My intent to adding the bacteria was to help my tanks cycle and actually start the process efficiently. I do not want to just pop a few simple frags in and a couple fish and call it a day. I’d like to make sure everything is in top shape and set up for the long haul I.e. water changes and intense care as needed. I ordered a refugium kit from the algae barn as well to put in my first chamber. Basically I would just like to know what the initial signs of my cycle starting and progress are. Also when would algae start to come in so I could add a clean up crew and go from there.
I appreciate all your words of wisdom and help also!
Sincerely,
Richie

You asked basically everything I also need to know. Guess I’ll keep reading ur thread and learn from that. Lol

 

[brandon429]

Excellent planning I can tell you are read up well, thats a fine order of ops. too soon fish use, even if cycling allows which yours would, is both an algae challenge and a disease challenge.

its neat how the signs for cycling were external (the holding vat from the fish store) and internal (the growths, pigmentation and inclusions on your rock + the known wet pack sand) its neat this is a reliable start method where the color a test kit renders to some and not others doesnt have to decide.

typical test cycling involves spiking ammonia to see if it goes down, but thats contraindicated here.

You paid extra for living animals and inclusions, ammonia burns them and can cause a loss cascade. its amazing that in this particular setup, you would never want to spike ammonia. dry rock systems, without animals in tow, get the zap verification test.

yours is safely cycled by visual indicators and known submersion history and storage bin clues. neato, very rare cutting edge cycling did occur.

 

[brandon429]

Equalizer hey what kind of tank do you have/are planning to set

 

[Paulie069]

Equalizer hey what kind of tank do you have/are planning to set

Have a 55 gal with 20 gal refugium. Was not planning on a reef but was gonna go all fake stuff because I’m making a seahorse condominium for my ponies but now second guessing myself after seeing all beautiful colors on live reefs throughout this website I have couple of real live rock starting to get color in my two 20gal tanks

 

[brandon429]

hey that is clean sharp setup it will be easy to keep clean and balance as you begin. that lighting from down under the stand looks like plant growth LED spectrum really cool (it can grow refugium plants in the sump if wanted) nice color and clean stacked setup there!

over time as that live rock sits there it will transmit its growths to the rest of the tank and the nonlive surfaces will take on filtration bacteria. If you've added bottle bacteria or are going to that will speed it up for sure. That is a different type of setup to using all live rocks and sand, and its a great example for a cycle discussion as we would offer bacteria to that type of arrangement and give it time to take them on. those live rocks appear to have coralline spotting, they too appear to have been underwater months, not weeks based on that visual ID.

 

[Paulie069]

hey that is clean sharp setup it will be easy to keep clean and balance as you begin. that lighting from down under the stand looks like plant growth LED spectrum really cool (it can grow refugium plants in the sump if wanted) nice color and clean stacked setup there!

over time as that live rock sits there it will transmit its growths to the rest of the tank and the nonlive surfaces will take on filtration bacteria. If you've added bottle bacteria or are going to that will speed it up for sure. That is a different type of setup to using all live rocks and sand, and its a great example for a cycle discussion as we would offer bacteria to that type of arrangement and give it time to take them on. those live rocks appear to have coralline spotting, they too appear to have been underwater months, not weeks based on that visual ID.

I get all my water from offshore 10 miles has almost everything I need in it

hey that is clean sharp setup it will be easy to keep clean and balance as you begin. that lighting from down under the stand looks like plant growth LED spectrum really cool (it can grow refugium plants in the sump if wanted) nice color and clean stacked setup there!

over time as that live rock sits there it will transmit its growths to the rest of the tank and the nonlive surfaces will take on filtration bacteria. If you've added bottle bacteria or are going to that will speed it up for sure. That is a different type of setup to using all live rocks and sand, and its a great example for a cycle discussion as we would offer bacteria to that type of arrangement and give it time to take them on. those live rocks appear to have coralline spotting, they too appear to have been underwater months, not weeks based on that visual ID.

 

[brandon429]

this is a fantastic cycling thread, really unique stuff here team

that is neat to know. Ocean water is the equivalent of awesome live rock lol for vectoring diverse bacteria

any short length of time that power water is added to this tank the surfaces are taking on powerful diverse bac how very rare and amazing you will never, ever, ever run low on bac nor need to buy it

what a very rare and blended setup you have there/access to rare fresh sea water.

 

[El_Guapo13]

God I love R2R. A thread in which a newbie asks a basic question turns into a full on technical science discussion. And as a lover of science and knowledge in general, I find it extremely fascinating and, for lack of a better term, awesome as heck.

 

[Paulie069]

this is a fantastic cycling thread, really unique stuff here team

that is neat to know. Ocean water is the equivalent of awesome live rock lol for vectoring diverse bacteria

any short length of time that power water is added to this tank the surfaces are taking on powerful diverse bac how very rare and amazing you will never, ever, ever run low on bac nor need to buy it

what a very rare and blended setup you have there/access to rare fresh sea water.

Don’t know how fresh sea water is rare. The world is three quarters ocean. Lol just playing I know what you mean

 

[Paulie069]

hey that is clean sharp setup it will be easy to keep clean and balance as you begin. that lighting from down under the stand looks like plant growth LED spectrum really cool (it can grow refugium plants in the sump if wanted) nice color and clean stacked setup there!

over time as that live rock sits there it will transmit its growths to the rest of the tank and the nonlive surfaces will take on filtration bacteria. If you've added bottle bacteria or are going to that will speed it up for sure. That is a different type of setup to using all live rocks and sand, and its a great example for a cycle discussion as we would offer bacteria to that type of arrangement and give it time to take them on. those live rocks appear to have coralline spotting, they too appear to have been underwater months, not weeks based on that visual ID.

I got rock from a friend that has four 55 gallon drums cut in half filled with live rock of all shapes n sizes and says I can take what I want because I give her seahorses all the time. Heck I found one today

 

[Yarrr!]

Welcome! You will like the fluval 13.5, its a great beginner tank.

 

[tstar]

Did you get an ATO? We have the same tank and to be honest with the original hood and light the evaporation is ridiculously minimal unlike our open top 29 gallon.

Jealous of the live rock!!! Get some beginner coral and get that thing going!!

Tim

 

[K7BMG]

Just one thing I have not seen posted here.

Live rock can come with unwanted pests.
Aptasia, worms and other unwanted hitchhikers.

So yes the fact that you can have a stocked tank in a day is fantastic.
But the insta tank can bring the bad along with it.

Sorry did not want to bring negativity to the thread, but it is something one needs to know about and understand.

 

[brandon429]

That's prudent and something to plan for agreed, the annoying ones are green hair algae and aiptasia. Just like cycling has different approaches (wait and test for 30 days all rocks, vs some rocks verified as skip cycle) there are different ways handle and view live rock or new tank invaders

A plan for the uglies -

Cycling has always been just about bacteria. It’s never about letting ones tank fill up with cyano, or GHA, we have matured tanks undergoing those problems right now in the invasion help forums so it’s no exclusive domain for cyclers that’s for sure.

Articles we can source right now devote a third of the material to advising we should allow the takeover, the advice has been a staple for nearing twenty plus years

But like live rock skip cyclers, a very small portion of reefers simply break rank and do not accept or comply with the uglies phase. they want their investments to always look nice-to not have to make excuses to all viewers for eleven months etc

when algae appears as it should on reefs (feeds grazers in the wild. Not a sign of bad params, gha is a sign of allowance only, like someone who allows their yard to take on all dandelions) it’s possible for you to just lift up the rock and kill it, stop the takeover, and set the rock back. Clean, instead of working through the water, which isn’t implicated as trouble during algae challenges, we can work directly on target where simple allowance is changed to disallowance

How to kill it? Get creative. I’ve used blue jet flame lighters to burn algae off. Sometimes a knife tip digs it out, with a blip of peroxide to kill anchors (all done externally, not through the water) if you have a clean up crew working then you won’t be cheating to stay clean, but if they get lazy you have a choice on how to garden your rocks. Allow or disallow. Reef tank invasion is a choice before it’s a biological matter, a yard being wrecked with weeds is a choice not a requirement.

**live rock has another powerful advantage over all cycle starts: inherent biodiversity that stops dino invasions

If you start with anything other than live rocks, real prior submerged live rocks, the risk of dino invasion isn’t just possible it’s elevated risk and those are top horrible invasion in reefing currently. Seawater might have similar suppressive effects that’s untested though

True live rock with growths and living projections is nearly immune to dino invasions, that’s a neat benefit for Richies tank

 

[brandon429]

This thread also stands out among all cycling articles and posts because we didn’t have to consult api test kits to proceed.

The attachments to live rock indicate time periods that are far past what ammonia controlling bacteria require to deposit, pigmentation that takes years to transform white calcium carbonate into purple knurled live rock with mini star arms hanging out in the current is the most reliable indicator of a complete cycle when trading in live rock



There are some things in reefing where guess titration measures aren’t helpful, this is one. Testless skip cycle is so 2020

If moving the live rocks home killed internal worms in such a way as to matter, you’d smell it as soon as you opened the transport bag. It smelled neutral because live rock is tough and doesn’t die moving tank to tank (all aquariums at MACNA conventions too)