Bringing the biodiversity...and the creativity. Game on.

[Slowpoke]

Got my pukani rock cureing still but I've already got the scape worked out. Going to have the mangrove trees growing out of the pukani. Can't wait to have water in the tank. Going to be using sand but didn't even think about adding mud. Gonna do some research on it now. Thanks for the idea

 

[herring_fish]

Scott,
I am so glad that you have recently started this thread. Thank you

To Scott and everyone else,
I am starting a 130 gallon refugium that is located in the garage and I need all the help that I can get. This 130 will be linked into a 180 gallon display tank. I plan to reap the benefits of the very wide diversity in the refugium to help feed my filter feeders and non-photosynthetic corals in the display.

I have a very strong Algal Turf Scrubber (ATS) that is placed over the display tank and will be the primary form of nutrient export for the system. I do not expect the refugium to carry the load of nutrient control. As a matter of fact the “fuge” may end up adding to the total load in the system because I intend to feed heavily to promote growth of as much critter spawning, zooplankton, bacteria, silicates and anything else that I can cultivate in this diverse community. If the load gets too great, I will add a second ATS in the garage.

Not knowing where to go, I looked on the net and ordered four, 3 to 4 foot mangrove plants from Mangroves Unlimited, just before the hurricane. I don’t believe that they have recovered enough to bill me and ship the plants yet.

I have calcareous, sand, gravel and a variety of rock, primarily from Caribsea as I am one of their testers. Additionally, a friend is going to the North Carolina coast, he will use a post hole digger tool to collect some cross sections of soil with plants. I will be shopping for more types of live macro algae and grass to fill out my fuge. Perhaps I should buy some mangrove roots and leave as well.

I will need some help on the construction of this substrate system. I expect that there will be a variety of ideas and opinions on this subject. I believe that where the input of ideas are concerned, Quantity is more important than Quality! Please add your two cents worth, no matter how little experience that you have.

In the early 90’s Dr. Adey published Dynamic Aquaria. As soon as it hit the shelves I bought it, read it and started changing to a more natural and diverse system. In his book, he described refugiums that he began building in the beginning of the 80’s. He modeled several types of biotope some of which included mangrove plants so this idea has been around for a long time. I’m glad to see that it is becoming more widely popular.

I have always wanted to have a refugium and now I finally have the room to start one. Please help me with your ideas and guidance.

 

[needbiggertanks]

I did this so far, back left corner of DT in rock, same in back right corner (the holes go through the rock for roots to grow out)

And there is rock in the bottom of the eggcrate in the fuge and the mangrove pods just rest on it. So far each propogule has roots sprouting. No leaves just yet and longest roots are only under 2" so far...

 

[herring_fish]

This is the direction that I think that I want to go in with flat sand on the left and a mound and the mangroves on the right.

 

[needbiggertanks]

Oh yeah, i love that tank!

 

[herring_fish]

What are these gray plants and can I buy them?

 

[mort]

What are these gray plants and can I buy them?

I think those grey plants are actually clams/oysters.

Loving the idea of your fuge tank. Is it many macro's your going to be growing or are you going to encourage cryptic fauna like sponges?

I once setup up thin 6ft refugium with lighting at one end for macro's and non at the other end for the cryptic area (although more flow than a true cryptic zone). The lit part had flow but this was heavily reduced to just a trickle by the other end where sponge live really took off. I wish I had a picture but I can't find any at the moment.

 

[herring_fish]

I think those grey plants are actually clams/oysters.

Thank you I want to buy some of those clam/oysters

Loving the idea of your fuge tank.

Thank you again. I am not completely sure that I should be going beyond an introduction in this thread, delineating what I do as I go. I don't know if this will be a hijacking of the intent to simply discuss. If so, I will be glad to start a build thread for it. On the other hand let's keep this thread alive and thriving with posts.

Scott and others, please express your preferences.

Is it many macro's your going to be growing or are you going to encourage cryptic fauna like sponges?

I hope to grow everything that I can! Ignorance is my biggest enemy. Lack of sources to buy the diversity that I want, is the second.

I think those grey plants are actually clams/oysters.
Loving the idea of your fuge tank. Is it many macro's your going to be growing or are you going to encourage cryptic fauna like sponges?
I once setup up thin 6ft refugium with lighting at one end for macro's and non at the other end for the cryptic area (although more flow than a true cryptic zone). The lit part had flow but this was heavily reduced to just a trickle by the other end where sponge live really took off. I wish I had a picture but I can't find any at the moment.

I have thought a lot about my display tank but this 130 is new to my plan. I have a lot of thinking to do on the these issues. I think that the mound on the right will be a pile of very porous calcareous rock 3-5 inches in size. Water should migrate through it to create a cryptic zone.

I don't know if this is a bad idea but using an Apex controller and their ATO pump, I thing that I should set things up so that when its time to top off, the water would be send to spray or grip nozzles. that could wet the leaves automatically. There would have to be a shortened ON period and then some time delay between the start of top off and the reading to see if more is required. That also means that I will have to put plastic wall lining up.

 

[najer]

Do you think the ats will limit the growth in the refugium?

 

[mort]

Do you think the ats will limit the growth in the refugium?

I think in most tanks the limitation on what outperforms what is based on the lighting you have. I see people who say their algae bed doesn't do anything and they still get masses of algae growth in the display, simply because they have £2000 worth of light in the display and a bulb that cost a tenner over the macro. So for me although you will see some competition it's a balancing act. ATS are arguably more effective nutrient removers but if you are feeding your refugium and lighting it strongly you'll strike a balance. By having the ATS after the display but before the refugium it will be contributing more to the filtration of the display and acting like two different systems. It does depend on the nutrient load of the system and how large the ats is. I personally like to use multiple methods but perhaps a little undersized.

 

[najer]

I think in most tanks the limitation on what outperforms what is based on the lighting you have. I see people who say their algae bed doesn't do anything and they still get masses of algae growth in the display, simply because they have £2000 worth of light in the display and a bulb that cost a tenner over the macro. So for me although you will see some competition it's a balancing act. ATS are arguably more effective nutrient removers but if you are feeding your refugium and lighting it strongly you'll strike a balance. By having the ATS after the display but before the refugium it will be contributing more to the filtration of the display and acting like two different systems. It does depend on the nutrient load of the system and how large the ats is. I personally like to use multiple methods but perhaps a little undersized.

I agree it is a balancing act.
Due to a heavier fish stocking than I originally planned I run a skimmer now before my fuge, the fuge still looks heathy.

 

[mort]

I agree it is a balancing act.
Due to a heavier fish stocking than I originally planned I run a skimmer now before my fuge, the fuge still looks heathy.

I run a skimmer in my algae fuge simply because I find the bubbles it kicks out actually keep the algae clean. It still thrives and the amount of life isn't that deminished from what I've seen. I do run multiple algae refugiums in series though and the skimmer is in the first, so it's not as large an affect as it would be on a normal system.

 

[herring_fish]

The ATS is fed about 250 gallons per hour in the 180 gallon display tank. Along with bottom dwellers, I intend for it to keep the display tank clean by itself, even though I will be feeding a ton of food every day.

My current plan is to only use an Auto Top Off pump to send refumium water back to the display tank in a loop. Even if it was turned on full time, it would have a max of 100 GPH. The fuge needs to be self sustaining as far as nutrient load is concerned but it will not be depended upon to help the display tank.

This is because I will be feeding the fuge to its max levels as well, in order to get maximum pelagic cell counts. My refugium will simply be a diverse life factory. I want to send the product, (live food) to the display.

In addition to all of this, I have a small zooplankton farm in the garage that will feed both the display tank and the refugium.

The fuge will of course have plants crustaceans and bugs but may have some softies, filter feeders and NPS corals as well as things like sea horses perhaps.

 

[herring_fish]

Running the refugiums after the skimmer sounds like a wise idea .

I run a skimmer in my algae fuge simply because I find the bubbles it kicks out actually keep the algae clean. It still thrives and the amount of life isn't that deminished from what I've seen. I do run multiple algae refugiums in series though and the skimmer is in the first, so it's not as large an affect as it would be on a normal system.

 

[herring_fish]

Watching one of Julian Springs videos, I got the impression that you don't need to wipe down or wipe down the leaves of a red mangrove Did I misunderstand what he was saying?

 

[mort]

Watching one of Julian Springs videos, I got the impression that you don't need to wipe down or wipe down the leaves of a red mangrove Did I misunderstand what he was saying?

That is my understanding as well although I've mostly read people sguest they need it. I must admit mine don't get a salt build up and I never wipe them. I believe it's the other species of mangroves that need the maintanance because they aren't as capable of dealing with salt. Wiping does simulate rain however and some areas are pretty wet so at best it would be worth periodic cleaning.