Bryopsis Cure: My Battle With Bryopsis Using Fluconazole

[Mr.Rocc]

Big water change?

Mine took 19 or 20 days. I have it on a calendar somewhere. 220 gal that was really full. I hit the tank twice with the treatment with one water change in between

 

[prsnlty]

Big water change?

A water change in between first and second doses is only required if you need to bring down your nitrate level. Otherwise it's not necessary

 

[Mr.Rocc]

A water change in between first and second doses is only required if you need to bring down your nitrate level. Otherwise it's not necessary

Got ya it couldnt hurt though however I wonder if manual removal prior to the second dosage would help anything. Any thoughts?

 

[downset21]

Big water change?

I did a 30 gal change. I guess that means a small change. 30 gal is my typical water changing regiment.

 

[prsnlty]

Got ya it couldnt hurt though however I wonder if manual removal prior to the second dosage would help anything. Any thoughts?

Did you manually remove before you started the first dose? That's really when it's best to do that. I found that removing the hair algae during the process actually slowed it down. Because it is the tips of the algae that sucks it in and brings it to the root. That being said that if you really have that much of it I would still pull as much as I could. Pull it and then do the water change sucking out as much as the loose floating algae that you can before the second dose.

 

[Mr.Rocc]

Did you manually remove before you started the first dose? That's really when it's best to do that. I found that removing the hair algae during the process actually slowed it down. Because it is the tips of the algae that sucks it in and brings it to the root. That being said that if you really have that much of it I would still pull as much as I could. Pull it and then do the water change sucking out as much as the loose floating algae that you can before the second dose.

Thats what I was thinking. I manually pulled on a Sunday and dosed on a thursday.

I did a 30 gal change. I guess that means a small change. 30 gal is my typical water changing regiment.

So like a normal WC. Thanks a ton both of you!

 

[ksanfranfan]

I haven't posted since the beginning of this thread along with detailed treatments in both of my tanks.
I treated both tanks with success back in February. There were no signs of bryopsis after the 14 day treatment. Last weak I began to notice strands of algae in my 29 biocube but figured it was probably just hair algae. Instead while looking over a couple of spots, mainly frag plugs, it's definitely bryopsis.
Being that I've added new frags to my tank from a couple of friends who both have bryopsis and are now treating their tanks, I'm not sure if the previous treatment didn't fully kill all of the bryopsis before or if I reintroduced it through new corals.
So now I'm back at it again....starting the process all over in my small tank. Today is day 1, no water changes again as things were doing great in this tank.
My 70g tank from close examination is still bryopsis free and was in much worse condition. So my conclusion would be that it was reintroduced to my smaller tank from the new corals.

 

[Woolleson]

Little update. .....

So after the initial few fronds from the return of the dreaded bryopsis it back with vengeance!

My initial thoughts where proved right. Even though the bryopsis seemed to have died and disappeared with the treatment it has returned from the roots. Strange though it has taken months to return. But it has regrown where it was most prevalent.

So I've ordered another dose and going to give it a shot. Hopefully this will see it off

 

[landlubber]

i'm at 1 week since treatment tomorrow morning and while i do notice a slight change in the tank i still feel it's early and another couple of weeks will provide a better measure of how it worked. mine seems to be gha primarily though.
this thread has me wondering if i should restock for a second dose now though. the remaining 4 capsules i have left won't take me very far should i have to dose again at full strength.

 

[mcarroll]

Are you guys updating your poll results from YES to NO as conditions change?

 

[ksanfranfan]

Are you guys updating your poll results from YES to NO as conditions change?

I updated posted my results in February after the 14 day treatment as being successful.
At this moment only one of my tanks are having a problem with bryopsis reappearing after the initial treatment after 3 months. It's hard for me to say that the treatment did not totally kill bryopsis due to adding new corals that could have reintroduced it. I don't see any new growth in my other tank which was worse but I also haven't added anything to it since the treatment.

 

[prsnlty]

i'm at 1 week since treatment tomorrow morning and while i do notice a slight change in the tank i still feel it's early and another couple of weeks will provide a better measure of how it worked. mine seems to be gha primarily though.
this thread has me wondering if i should restock for a second dose now though. the remaining 4 capsules i have left won't take me very far should i have to dose again at full strength.

If you have gha and not bryopsis or if you have huge amounts of bryopsis in the shadows, I would say you will most likely need 2 treatments.

 

[prsnlty]

Little update. .....

So after the initial few fronds from the return of the dreaded bryopsis it back with vengeance!

My initial thoughts where proved right. Even though the bryopsis seemed to have died and disappeared with the treatment it has returned from the roots. Strange though it has taken months to return. But it has regrown where it was most prevalent.

So I've ordered another dose and going to give it a shot. Hopefully this will see it off

I've been thinking about this also. I think the people who had so much of it in the first place should probably treat their system quarterly until you see no signs of return at all. That's going to be my plan anyway once I get my tank stable again from the semi crash

 

[mcarroll]

I updated posted my results in February after the 14 day treatment as being successful.
At this moment only one of my tanks are having a problem with bryopsis reappearing after the initial treatment after 3 months. It's hard for me to say that the treatment did not totally kill bryopsis due to adding new corals that could have reintroduced it. I don't see any new growth in my other tank which was worse but I also haven't added anything to it since the treatment.

But the poll says "Did it kill ALL your bryopsis?"

If the tank's cured, there's no bryopsis right?

Thus justifying the use of a chemical like Fluconazole.

I do understand where you're coming from with the frag/reintriduction idea...but that's sort of my point.

I think we've been "duped" in a way – this is not a cure in the way that we need it to be. It only targets the symptom of a problem, and it only works while being administered. No protection is offered after treatment.

We would all be better off fixing the causes for the plague-level algae outbreaks we have whether we choose to implement this cure or not.

If a tank is ripe for algae and nothing is done to change that, either bryopsis or GHA (or something else) is almost a sure thing.

If we can step back and think about how we're using the meds in question, treating under these conditions might even be a little irresponsible on our part. When doctors prescribe this med it's under very strict usage and disposal guidelines – because it's a strong, important drug with significant side-effects for the user as well as the environment.

In the light of our limited position as hobbyists (no microscopes; no expertise), it would be awesome if we were being a lot more conservative with our use of this cure.

If you follow this thread's way of dealing with the problem by hitting the symptom with a medication – you've got a super-medicated tank on your hands.

This is not Vitamin C and sunshine that we're dumping in our tanks after all – so how long can that go on? (Drug resistant Bryopsis, or who knows what else, anyone?)

(Can the folks using fluconazole in their tanks absorb the drug through their skin from handling the pills or from the tank water?)

I think the people who had so much of it in the first place should probably treat their system quarterly until you see no signs of return at all.

This is starting to feel more like the dino thread...repeating supposed miracle cures and not enough attention to other factors like cause-elimination.

 

[mcarroll]

Even if we 100% believe this cure is all we're imagining it to be....our course forward can't be just miracle cures.

• too much food + too much light + open substrate to grow on = green algae bloom

• fish population is the #1 factor in how much food we feed

• if we won't cut the fish population...that leaves reducing light levels and covering the available growing space as our two other main tools we can use to prevent algae growth

• I don't know where the trend originated, but most folks will throw all manner of bandaids at the nutrient-input problem created by the bio-load rather than sticking with the fundamentals. Bandaids are the expensive, hard way – when they work. Bandaids (GFO, carbon dosing, et al) do not address most of the contributing factors, however, so their effectiveness is obviously less than 100%.

• there has to be a balance in the tank – and generally, algae achieve that balance for us. I don't see how that reality is avoidable. In fact algae are generally healthy to have around...many of us just tend to keep very lopsided systems, so we often end up with big algae populations.

• these are some of the factors that ought to be addressed before taking up a "cure" like fluconazole....that way risk of reoccurrence will be pretty close to zero AND risk of needing a second or third (or quarterly, or prophylactic) treatment is also close to zero.

@Paul B had a great post recently on cycles that I think many here could appreciate:
Cycles in Reef Tanks

 

[prsnlty]

Even if we 100% believe this cure is all we're imagining it to be....our course forward can't be just miracle cures.

• too much food + too much light + open substrate to grow on = green algae bloom

• fish population is the #1 factor in how much food we feed

• if we won't cut the fish population...that leaves reducing light levels and covering the available growing space as our two other main tools we can use to prevent algae growth

• I don't know where the trend originated, but most folks will throw all manner of bandaids at the nutrient-input problem created by the bio-load rather than sticking with the fundamentals. Bandaids are the expensive, hard way – when they work. Bandaids (GFO, carbon dosing, et al) do not address most of the contributing factors, however, so their effectiveness is obviously less than 100%.

• there has to be a balance in the tank – and generally, algae achieve that balance for us. I don't see how that reality is avoidable. In fact algae are generally healthy to have around...many of us just tend to keep very lopsided systems, so we often end up with big algae populations.

• these are some of the factors that ought to be addressed before taking up a "cure" like fluconazole....that way risk of reoccurrence will be pretty close to zero AND risk of needing a second or third (or quarterly, or prophylactic) treatment is also close to zero.

@Paul B had a great post recently on cycles that I think many here could appreciate:
Cycles in Reef Tanks

I agree with you for 99% of it. However, there are those who do all the right things and yet it still shows up.

I believe the point of this thread was to 1st save the tank but fix whatever caused it in the 1st place. Not to keep using as a bandaid. **In my case it came in on a zoa frag I believe, coupled by using a new salt that required the use of their no po4 unknowingly, my po4 went from undetectable to .16.

As long as the root is left behind (in most cases you can't see it) it can return. Those people may need to dose again until it is gone.

I also agree that prolonged use can create an immunity as we know it does in humans. Studies we posted within this thread say that is the worse case scenario in humans. This medication has been used for fish (besides humans) for many years however to treat fungus and that is how it was found to kill bryopsis in Brazil as it was mentioned in a study that was translated to English. The same study is where the dosage is from what I understand. @NCreefguy

NCreefguy (OP) states at the very beginning of this thread that is use at your own risk. I agree with that. We are experimenting with our tanks to find the pros and cons, what works and why doesn't. Use of this medication is up to the individual and we continue to stress that they read the whole thread before using fluconazole.

 

[prsnlty]

Too many people want to jump right in and medicate their tank before fixing what caused it in the first place. That bothers me also. There's a lot of people that jumped into reefkeeping without getting all the information they need to start up their systems and just wing it. A lot of the people I have seen with terrible algae in their systems have learned from Facebook lol. THEN they come to the Forum on for help. Not using Rodi not checking their perimeters with reliable test kits not doing proper water changes and overfeeding.... lights on waaaaay too long because they want to see the tank when they're at home, rather than changing the light schedule so they can - they just extend the light period. I could go on but won't. None-the-less if this works for them to clean up the mess so they can start over and do things right rather than leave the hobby I feel like it's a good thing. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[NCreefguy]

Conversation moved to PM.

 

[mcarroll]

gha (r2r search – click it)

I'm all for you or anyone stating not to use this for GHA.

But there are 16 pages worth of posts in this thread where gha is mentioned.

I'm not naming any names because that's not the point, but it's not me confusing things.

So let's keep in mind I'm not just shooting off with the mouth pls?

Bryopsis cannot bloom in a tank that is not ripe for an algae bloom – they require the same resources....light, nutrients, and space to grow.

Maybe it's important to distinguish "mere presence" from a bloom?

But my point is that merely nipping the bloom with a momentary-but-effective cure doesn't change overall tank conditions. This is especially relevant for the people who are going to use it vs hair algae too.

How long has the longest tank been clear of bryopsis so far after this treatment?

Has anyone (who speaks the language) kept up with the discoverer's experience that we know of?

I just hope that there is a "correct dose" and that we don't have a flurry of tanks come back with blooms because the bryopsis was just waiting for the effects from the fluconazole to subside.

(Bryopsis is hypothetically capable....stuff is amazing!)

 

[mcarroll]

Too many people want to jump right in and medicate their tank before fixing what caused it in the first place. That bothers me also. There's a lot of people that jumped into reefkeeping without getting all the information they need to start up their systems and just wing it. A lot of the people I have seen with terrible algae in their systems have learned from Facebook lol. THEN they come to the Forum on for help. Not using Rodi not checking their perimeters with reliable test kits not doing proper water changes and overfeeding.... lights on waaaaay too long because they want to see the tank when they're at home, rather than changing the light schedule so they can - they just extend the light period. I could go on but won't. None-the-less if this works for them to clean up the mess so they can start over and do things right rather than leave the hobby I feel like it's a good thing. That's just my personal opinion.

No doubt. I'm not opposed to targeted use – it's yet another tool for the toolbox.

But I'm also not in favor of uses where repeat or systematic use is going to be required. That's not proper use of a drug like fluconazole.

If you (or anyone) is really tracking bryopsis in on frags and it's re-blooming, then I think there may be deeper issues to look at: where you get your frags, how you pre-treat them, and many aspects of system setup and husbandry all come to mind.

I think folks also tend to see a "cure" thread and stop all other activities toward trying to figure out "what happened". If we could do more to encourage figuring out "what happend" here along with the fluconazole guidance, it would undoubtedly help.