Burnt Coralites

[Huskymaniac]

Any ideas how to stop it? I reduced the lighting by 30%. Phosphates were .05 and Nitrates were higher than 5.

 

[MnFish1]

Any ideas how to stop it? I reduced the lighting by 30%. Phosphates were .05 and Nitrates were higher than 5.

IME - burning like this (assuming you're meaning the tips of coral) - when I have seen this problem its too high an alkalinity vs the intensity of the light. The lower the alkalinity and the higher the flow - the more light the coral can accept. The higher the alkalinity and the lower the flow seems (assuming there is no disease or parasites) - the lower the light intensity should be. What is yoru alkalinity - pictures would be helpful - as well as some more history - when did it start - were there any changes, etc

 

[Huskymaniac]

IME - burning like this (assuming you're meaning the tips of coral) - when I have seen this problem its too high an alkalinity vs the intensity of the light. The lower the alkalinity and the higher the flow - the more light the coral can accept. The higher the alkalinity and the lower the flow seems (assuming there is no disease or parasites) - the lower the light intensity should be. What is yoru alkalinity - pictures would be helpful - as well as some more history - when did it start - were there any changes, etc

It started after a negative reaction to flucanazole but hasn't improved. It's just gradually been worse. Seems like the higher flow areas are in worse shape. Its just really odd in general. I've lowered lights with no luck. Started to dose reef energy yesterday to help with the tissue regeneration.

 

[ScottB]

Any ideas how to stop it? I reduced the lighting by 30%. Phosphates were .05 and Nitrates were higher than 5.

Hey Husky, isn't your system coming out of some kind of treatment in the last few weeks? Remind us? Fluconazole or Chemi or some such? What has been changing?

It is my experience that acros can go a couple weeks before visually expressing a prior stress. Since I cannot remember yesterday, much less a few weeks ago, I keep decent logs of stuff.

I do think bringing down the lights when corals are stressed is step one; I am with you there.

*edit:
Date of fluc dose?
WCs since? Running carbon or other removal?

 

[Huskymaniac]

Hey Husky, isn't your system coming out of some kind of treatment in the last few weeks? Remind us? Fluconazole or Chemi or some such? What has been changing?

It is my experience that acros can go a couple weeks before visually expressing a prior stress. Since I cannot remember yesterday, much less a few weeks ago, I keep decent logs of stuff.

I do think bringing down the lights when corals are stressed is step one; I am with you there.

Flucanazole but that was a while ago. This stag just keeps looking worse. Is this still the ramifications of the Flucanazole?

 

[ScottB]

Flucanazole but that was a while ago. This stag just keeps looking worse. Is this still the ramifications of the Flucanazole?

Hey, see? I remember some things

Date of fluc dose?
WCs since? Running carbon or other removal?

 

[Huskymaniac]

Hey, see? I remember some things

Date of fluc dose?
WCs since? Running carbon or other removal?

Has to atleast be a month ago. Done 6 water changes. Running carbon and poly filters.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Hey, see? I remember some things

Date of fluc dose?
WCs since? Running carbon or other removal?

I also had to move some coral to a make shift frag tank. Had a beautiful ice fire enchinata that lost all of its color. Its starting to out some threads so hopefully starting to recover.

 

[MnFish1]

I assume you used fluconazole for algae. My guess - (if it worked) - that you had a spike of something - whether ammonia, etc. Depending on how much of whatever you were trying to get rid of. Additionally - I believe that some zooxanthellae are also affected by fluconazole (just like certain algae). then - once something starts dying - releasing chemicals, etc - it irritates other things, etc etc etc. I would suggest carbon and a couple water changes - and patience

 

[ScottB]

Trying to recall who it was that had a similar acro die-off that dragged on for a bit after fluconazole. In fact I think there was a couple going on at the same time. @JCOLE did your tribulations start with fluconazole?

Fluc almost always causes a depression in ALK consumption that sometimes gets people in some trouble. But in the rare cases that it really gets bad, I believe there is something very different going on. This fungicide irritates or kills some other set of organisms. Maybe those were an important part of that particular biome, or maybe they released a ton of toxin that stressed out the acropora.

Anyway, with carbon and WCs you should be headed in the right direction now. Bring the lights slowly back up over the next few weeks and keep parameters super stable with nutrient available.

 

[JCOLE]

Trying to recall who it was that had a similar acro die-off that dragged on for a bit after fluconazole. In fact I think there was a couple going on at the same time. @JCOLE did your tribulations start with fluconazole?

Fluc almost always causes a depression in ALK consumption that sometimes gets people in some trouble. But in the rare cases that it really gets bad, I believe there is something very different going on. This fungicide irritates or kills some other set of organisms. Maybe those were an important part of that particular biome, or maybe they released a ton of toxin that stressed out the acropora.

Anyway, with carbon and WCs you should be headed in the right direction now. Bring the lights slowly back up over the next few weeks and keep parameters super stable with nutrient available.

I can't say for sure the die off was all related to Fluconazole but it definitely had a hand in it. I used Fluconazole a year ago and only lost an Echinata. This last time I dosed Vibrant for two months, then Chemiclean, then Fluconazole. I started this around September of last year. Started seeing issues about a week or so after dosing Fluconazole.

I made some other changes during this course including changing my lighting source from LEDs to higher intensity T5. I think that, coupled with the medication caused the deaths.

I think the Vibrant and Fluconazole also kills beneficial algae and bacteria in the system. I think it also attacks the Zooxanthellae within the corals. This is Anecdotal for me and just what it appears like with my personal experienced.

I think it also bottoms out nutrients and starves the corals as well. I have been dosing Sodium Nitrate to keep up NO3 levels and feeding heavier with coral foods to keep PO4 up.

Manual removal sure beats using these quick fixes anyday. This is the result because I wanted to rid bubble algae and some GHA. All of the bubble algae returned within a couple weeks during the time I lost the corals. I spent 4 hours manually removing all of the bubble algae and netting it out. I have been bubble algae free ever since. SMH.....lesson learned.

@Huskymaniac do you run or use Polyfilter? If not, I would grab one and throw it in your sump. It helps to remove an assortment of things including Medications.

I know it might not be what you want to hear but the damage has already been done. It really is disheartening when this happens because I don't think there is a whole lot we we can in times like these except to just take a step back, baby the system, wait it out and let it do its thing.

You might lose this piece but I wouldn't change anything drastically that would affect other pieces in your system. I personally would throw in a Polyfilter, continue water changes, dose Aminos if you have any on hand, and keep your nutrients up.

I hope everything turns out for the better with your system!

 

[Huskymaniac]

I can't say for sure the die off was all related to Fluconazole but it definitely had a hand in it. I used Fluconazole a year ago and only lost an Echinata. This last time I dosed Vibrant for two months, then Chemiclean, then Fluconazole. I started this around September of last year. Started seeing issues about a week or so after dosing Fluconazole.

I made some other changes during this course including changing my lighting source from LEDs to higher intensity T5. I think that, coupled with the medication caused the deaths.

I think the Vibrant and Fluconazole also kills beneficial algae and bacteria in the system. I think it also attacks the Zooxanthellae within the corals. This is Anecdotal for me and just what it appears like with my personal experienced.

I think it also bottoms out nutrients and starves the corals as well. I have been dosing Sodium Nitrate to keep up NO3 levels and feeding heavier with coral foods to keep PO4 up.

Manual removal sure beats using these quick fixes anyday. This is the result because I wanted to rid bubble algae and some GHA. All of the bubble algae returned within a couple weeks during the time I lost the corals. I spent 4 hours manually removing all of the bubble algae and netting it out. I have been bubble algae free ever since. SMH.....lesson learned.

@Huskymaniac do you run or use Polyfilter? If not, I would grab one and throw it in your sump. It helps to remove an assortment of things including Medications.

I know it might not be what you want to hear but the damage has already been done. It really is disheartening when this happens because I don't think there is a whole lot we we can in times like these except to just take a step back, baby the system, wait it out and let it do its thing.

You might lose this piece but I wouldn't change anything drastically that would affect other pieces in your system. I personally would throw in a Polyfilter, continue water changes, dose Aminos if you have any on hand, and keep your nutrients up.

I hope everything turns out for the better with your system!

Really nothing in the tank looks good at this point. Even though the majority of everything survived the tank looks awful. I have been changing poly filters weekly and doing water changes every 3 or 4 days. Started feed Reef Energy at night. Will probablly do some fragging to open up space for increased water flow. Also thinking about moving away from the gyres or adding a wav pump. Going to also start dosing daily iodine.

 

[MnFish1]

Really nothing in the tank looks good at this point. Even though the majority of everything survived the tank looks awful. I have been changing poly filters weekly and doing water changes every 3 or 4 days. Started feed Reef Energy at night. Will probablly do some fragging to open up space for increased water flow. Also thinking about moving away from the gyres or adding a wav pump. Going to also start dosing daily iodine.

might consider slowing down a bit. Get rid of the toxins (yes - carbon, poly filters, water changes) - I would suggest that you use a good water change calculator - to see whether your water changes are having much of an effect (here is one: https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectOfWaterChanges.php) - I think its a good idea to prune away dead tissue up to the healthy tissue. I might tend to keep your flow the same. I might not start dosing anything - unless you have a clear reason to do so (including reef energy). I have nothing against those products - but when you tend to make a lot of changes at one time - you can cause more rather than less problems. Feel for you - its a hard situation.

 

[Huskymaniac]

This sucks. My 11 year old serpent star is starting to melt at the dock. Thank you Fluc.

 

[MnFish1]

Just to make sure - are all of your other parameters completely good - with no changes? IMHO/IME the issues with 'crashes' is not the inciting issue - its that once one thing dies, they release more toxins (which we cant measure) - which kills other things - which causes a kind of cascade. The other thing I've learned - is once you get rid of the toxins (and to me a really high quality carbon is best) - things will come back.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Just to make sure - are all of your other parameters completely good - with no changes? IMHO/IME the issues with 'crashes' is not the inciting issue - its that once one thing dies, they release more toxins (which we cant measure) - which kills other things - which causes a kind of cascade. The other thing I've learned - is once you get rid of the toxins (and to me a really high quality carbon is best) - things will come back.

Add a dead cardinalfish fish this morning as well. All parameters are fine and in check.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Have you done an Icp test?

 

[Huskymaniac]

Have you done an Icp test?

Yes. Only thing off was iodine which was low.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Think my mandarin may be dead now also. I am basically at the point where I have realized there is no point to keep this tank going. Over the next few days I will find homes for whatever is alive and bleach and start from fresh. I can't believe a treatment being touted on this website can cause so much devastation.

 

[ScottB]

Think my mandarin may be dead now also. I am basically at the point where I have realized there is no point to keep this tank going. Over the next few days I will find homes for whatever is alive and bleach and start from fresh. I can't believe a treatment being touted on this website can cause so much devastation.

I am so sorry. When you said a serpent star was melting, I was like **** this is crazy bad.

Any paly in that tank? I meant to ask before (or maybe I did)?