Butterfly fish in the reef Aquarium

[Zionas]

Are there NO Butterflyfish suitable for a beginner with a new system (105 gallons, 4 foot)? Not even ones like Klein’s, Burgess, Tinker’s, Declivis, Mitratus, Tahiti or Atlantic Long Snout?

 

[Tanne]

Wow, what timing! Thanks for sharing! I really didn't expect you to see this.
So... I have not stopped thinking about this. I keep watching my baby Regal Angel and praying that she will snack a little on my zoas but she prefers to graze on the rocks. Today was her first day to come out and swim with the big fish, no issues. So, in reference to what you were just saying, and the natural diet of the fish.... 2 years ago, I bought a colony of Pocillopora Damicornis. Worst move I ever made. Some people have no issues... I now have more then one hundred colonies of various sizes and that's not counting those in caves. I have kept them at bay but i am losing this battle. I have a couple of techniques, a 5 watt laser and Aptasia X. I have a long syringe, 36", that i used to cover the colony and leave the pumps off for about 30 mins. This is very effective. The laser will reach those that i cannot with the syringe, but, leave one polyp and that colony will recover in a couple of weeks. This is a very aggressive, fast growing, inexpensive, coral, that when it runs into your 250.00, large, Walt Disney, or your 500.00, large, Pink lemonade colony, promptly stings it to death with its sweepers and takes over. So, as my thoughts branched out on this idea, I did some research (since I am furloughed and not allowed to work) and as it turns out, there is a butterflyfish that prefers or maybe even requires Pocillopora Damicornis for it's diet and that fish, mentioned above, is C. trifasciatus, the Melon Butterflyfish. See attached pic. As of this afternoon, I believe I have found one or two small ones. I would like to have a pair to see them swimming together in the tank. I have a call in but didn't hear back yet. I am really excited that not only will I have this beautiful fish in my tank, but he will also go to war for me against these dreaded Pocillopora! My next fish, that will have to wait until I go back to work, is the roaps butterflyfish, Chaetodon tinkeri. Not much of a risk but a beautiful fish.
Thanks,
Jeff

I have the same experience with Pocillopora. However, I don't think this bf will be a good solution to this luxury problem. The problem is that C. trifasciatus is a strict corallivore and to worsen things: its beak is quite large. This means it will scrape of coral tissue from the corals leading to clearly visible bite marks. The larvatus I had, nipped off polyps as it had a smaller mouth. Apart from finding a healthy trifasciatus you will also have a hard time adjusting it to aquarium food. Next to oysters, I have understood that -when young- these fish may adapt to live baby brine. I have seen some videos of them eating it.

The oyster trick is pretty easy: in the beginning offer live oysters. Cut them open, aiming to have two shells both having some meat. Fix this meat with a rubber band and place the shell at a spot the fish often passes by. If this has to be on top of a coral, put it on top of the coral. Daily replace the oysters, they WILL get to understand this. When the fish start to eat oyster, keep on offering a fresh one every day. After some weeks, you can switch to the frozen oysters mentioned before.

If you do get these fish, please post your experiences.

 

[Zionas]

I’m thinking if I could keep two different species of Chaetodon chosen from among the <7” species in my tank. For example like a Burgess and a Merten’s, or a Double Saddle and a Tinker’s or a Mitratus and a Klein’s. My tank’s 4 foot long, 2 foot wide and almost 2 foot tall. The only larger fish they’ll be sharing space with will be a Marine Betta.

 

[Shredded]

I have the same experience with Pocillopora. However, I don't think this bf will be a good solution to this luxury problem. The problem is that C. trifasciatus is a strict corallivore and to worsen things: its beak is quite large. This means it will scrape of coral tissue from the corals leading to clearly visible bite marks. The larvatus I had, nipped off polyps as it had a smaller mouth. Apart from finding a healthy trifasciatus you will also have a hard time adjusting it to aquarium food. Next to oysters, I have understood that -when young- these fish may adapt to live baby brine. I have seen some videos of them eating it.

The oyster trick is pretty easy: in the beginning offer live oysters. Cut them open, aiming to have two shells both having some meat. Fix this meat with a rubber band and place the shell at a spot the fish often passes by. If this has to be on top of a coral, put it on top of the coral. Daily replace the oysters, they WILL get to understand this. When the fish start to eat oyster, keep on offering a fresh one every day. After some weeks, you can switch to the frozen oysters mentioned before.

If you do get these fish, please post your experiences.

I will absolutely be posting this! I hope to order today and will start a separate thread with pictures to track this experiment!

Actually what you have said only makes me more excited about trying to get one. I have no problem with the bite marks on the Pocillopora. The only thing I could imagine being better is if their break could actually break off and crush the coral skeleton. That is extreme but shows my frustration with this rapidly growing aggressive coral. BUT, now with this exciting possibility, I guess totally destroying each coral head would eventually eliminate its food source. You see, (I should document this) I can take the laser and completely eradicate almost every single polyp on that colony, but the key word there is almost, as you can’t get to every one having a limited angle to shoot from. Within days that bare skeleton will start to look “fuzzy” and within a week he will obviously be repopulated and green again. In two weeks, it will look untouched and be growing again. So craped areas will not be that way for long and just maybe this fish can keep this coral growth in check. If only Acros would grow like this! The crazy growth of this coral in my tank, gave me this idea, as if this grows like this in my aquarium where naturally it’s not perfect, but I work really hard at my conditions, just imagine what it’s growth would be on the reef! This species would outgrow and overpower every other coral on the reef virtuality turning it into on huge bank of pocillopora. I figured there had to be a specific predator to keep this in check and while it appears that lots of butterflyfish do like and eat this coral, (but at the same time a wide range of others) this specific fish prefers this one coral over all others. Also for once the fish I want doesn’t cost 700.00! (Stupid Tinkers, found one yesterday for 900.00) I’m no ichthyologist and I’ve no scientific data, just the limited research I’ve done, so this could all be just crap, but I think it’s worth a chance. Everyone keep the discussion and comments coming!
Thanks!
Jeff

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

I have the same experience with Pocillopora. However, I don't think this bf will be a good solution to this luxury problem. The problem is that C. trifasciatus is a strict corallivore and to worsen things: its beak is quite large. This means it will scrape of coral tissue from the corals leading to clearly visible bite marks. The larvatus I had, nipped off polyps as it had a smaller mouth. Apart from finding a healthy trifasciatus you will also have a hard time adjusting it to aquarium food. Next to oysters, I have understood that -when young- these fish may adapt to live baby brine. I have seen some videos of them eating it.

The oyster trick is pretty easy: in the beginning offer live oysters. Cut them open, aiming to have two shells both having some meat. Fix this meat with a rubber band and place the shell at a spot the fish often passes by. If this has to be on top of a coral, put it on top of the coral. Daily replace the oysters, they WILL get to understand this. When the fish start to eat oyster, keep on offering a fresh one every day. After some weeks, you can switch to the frozen oysters mentioned before.

If you do get these fish, please post your experiences.

Does chateodon meyeri present the same problem as with chaetodon trifasciatus

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

I will absolutely be posting this! I hope to order today and will start a separate threat with pictures to track this experiment!

Actually what you have said only makes me more excited about trying to get one. I have no problem with the bite marks on the Pocillopora. The only thing I could imagine being better is if their break could actually break off and crush the coral skeleton. That is extreme but shows my frustration with this rapidly growing aggressive coral. BUT, now with this exciting possibility, I guess totally destroying each coral head would eventually eliminate its food source. You see, (I should document this) I can take the laser and completely eradicate almost every single polyp on that colony, but the key word there is almost, as you can’t get to every one having a limited angle to shoot from. Within days that bare skeleton will start to look “fuzzy” and within a week he will obviously be repopulated and green again. In two weeks, it will look untouched and be growing again. So craped areas will not be that way for long and just maybe this fish can keep this coral growth in check. If only Acros would grow like this! The crazy growth of this coral in my tank, gave me this idea, as if this grows like this in my aquarium where naturally it’s not perfect, but I work really hard at my conditions, just imagine what it’s growth would be on the reef! This species would outgrow and overpower every other coral on the reef virtuality turning it into on huge bank of pocillopora. I figured there had to be a specific predator to keep this in check and while it appears that lots of butterflyfish do like and eat this coral, (but at the same time a wide range of others) this specific fish prefers this one coral over all others. Also for once the fish I want doesn’t cost 700.00! (Stupid Tinkers, found one yesterday for 900.00) I’m no ichthyologist and I’ve no scientific data, just the limited research I’ve done, so this could all be just crap, but I think it’s worth a chance. Everyone keep the discussion and comments coming!
Thanks!
Jeff

Good luck i really hope you have success

 

[Shredded]

Are there NO Butterflyfish suitable for a beginner with a new system (105 gallons, 4 foot)? Not even ones like Klein’s, Burgess, Tinker’s, Declivis, Mitratus, Tahiti or Atlantic Long Snout?

Oh I believe there are several that would be ok for a beginner but they are very sensitive to water quality and you must absolutely understand it’s diet. The Tinkers is a very hardy fish that usually starts eating foods right away but being it’s a deeper water fish and harder to collect it commands a high price. I wouldn’t do it until you have a mature tank and are able to keep other fish long term.

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

Have you seen this guys tank too?

 

[Shredded]

Does chateodon meyeri present the same problem as with chaetodon trifasciatus

I did look at C, meyeri, I have to be truthful, I did look at those butterflyfish that I found to be the most colorful as I wanted a showy fish for the tank. In this instance that actually played to my favor as it appears that the more colorful butterflyfish are coralivores. In this case tho, Meyeri prefers Acropora.

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

I did look at C, meyeri, I have to be truthful, I did look at those butterflyfish that I found to be the most colorful as I wanted a showy fish for the tank. In this instance that actually played to my favor as it appears that the more colorful butterflyfish are coralivores. In this case tho, Meyeri prefers Acropora.

Ohh thats a problem then, theyre my favourite of the corallivores, when im older and have the money for a bigger tank and acros corals id like to attempt some of these species. Have you looked at chateodon fremblii? I cant remember if they eat sps or soft corals, think theyre one of the faculative corallivires, so maybe wont be something youre interested in.

Sorry just checked fishbase and it seems they might not be corallivores at all, i mustve mixed them up with something

 

[Tanne]

Does chateodon meyeri present the same problem as with chaetodon trifasciatus

Yes they do. And please do not underestimate their appetite for corals. It will surely not be limited to Pocillopora only.

 

[Shredded]

Have you seen this guys tank too?

Those would be the two that I want. It’s hard to tall what size they are. Here is the tank these would go into, it is 300 gallons actual water volume...

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

Those would be the two that I want. It’s hard to tall what size they are. Here is the tank these would go into, it is 300 gallons actual water volume...

Thats a pretty tank, looks like butterflyfish would love it lol. Thats a nice looking radiant wrasse too.
That guy seems to keep a few varieties of butterflies in a reef tank

 

[Zionas]

For a 105-gallon tank, how many butterflies would you recommend I keep? I’m only looking at species that grow to less than 7 inches. Can I keep 2? My tank’s 4 foot long.

 

[Tanne]

Thats a pretty tank, looks like butterflyfish would love it lol. Thats a nice looking radiant wrasse too.
That guy seems to keep a few varieties of butterflies in a reef tank

This is Glenn Fong's previous BF-tank. Most BF in this picture (rafflesi, auriga, declivis) are pretty safe with sps corals.

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

This is Glenn Fong's previous BF-tank. Most BF in this picture (rafflesi, auriga, declivis) are pretty safe with sps corals.

Oh thats cool, didnt think the rafflesi or auriga would be pretty safe with sps.
What species of corralivores have you kept over the years?

 

[Zionas]

I’ve pretty much given up on the idea of having a butterfly until I have a system at least 5 foot long. I managed to get in touch with Bob Fenner from WWM and he thinks even the smaller species that get to 5-6” need at least a 5 foot tank for swimming space. I’d also like to have experience with tougher species before getting a butterfly.

However, in the future, I’d love to begin with one of the Roaps butterflies (Tinker, Mitratus, Burgess, Declivis), a Spotband, Double Saddle, Mertensi, or Klein’s.

 

[Shredded]

Yes they do. And please do not underestimate their appetite for corals. It will surely not be limited to Pocillopora only.

OK, so I am working with someone and have put together an order. It may take a few weeks to come together as he hand picks the fish at his supplier (right now he is not allowed to do that and he will not accept someone picking his fish for him) Then they go into quarantine at his place to make sure that healthy and eating before he will ship. (I have asked him to start them eating oysters or clams on the half shell) No sense in rushing this process anyway. Just the thought of doing this makes my stomach queasy, ;Meh but I am just going to jump in with both feet. I found and read the Matt Pedersen article and it was a really good read and was very encouraging. See link below. I encourage everyone to read this that doesn't think it's possible. While it's not a large order, to me it is a big step. I think you have had all but C. Trifasciatus, and maybe even that one.

Pygoplites diacanthus (juvenile) - Already purchased and grazing happily in the tank. No noticeable damage at this point.
Chaetodon Larvatus - Small
Chaetodon Trifasciatus - 2 Small
Chaetodon Tinkeri - Small

In your opinion, what can I expect? I have attached a picture of the tank for example. At the beginning of this thread I posted the specs of my tank. It is not yet overrun with Pocillopora but there are a lot and it could get that way, but because they grew "wild" in their locations they look very natural. The colonies labeled are only the ones that were visible. There are far more in this area. (the original mother coral that constantly decided to have a polyp bailout was removed long ago). Obviously the concern is the Larvatus, as the Trifasciatus prefers the Pocillopora and Pocillopora control will be their job but I also know that Pocillopora is on many of the Coralivores menus. Did you experience any significant "damage" to any of your other corals from your Larvatus?
Thanks,
Jeff

VIDEOS - Corallivorous Butterflyfishes Eating Everything Except Coral - CORAL Magazine

There are now dozens of videos depicting corallivorous butterflyfishes readily consuming all manner of aquarium food...in fact everything except living coral, in home aquariums.

www.reef2rainforest.com

 

[Shredded]

Today, the regal showed interest in the mixed frozen foods that I offer on a daily basis and it did attempt to eat, not much, but it was the first time. Also, offered clam on the half shell. It did show an interest but there was no way it was going to jump into the feeding frenzy taking place on that clam.

 

[JMM744]

So many butterflies and only so many a guy can keep. Vetteguy, my Klein’s ate a huge Miami chalice in a week. It was ruthless with it. It leaves the montipora (common red stuff) and blue ridge corals alone though.
Butterflies, though difficult at times are very rewarding fish to keep. It’s a heartbreaker to lose one though, oh my!!