Butterfly fish that can withstand tang agression.

[unklez]

I need a butterfly fish for aiptasia control. I don't care for reef safe ones.

Also I'd like one thats not shy like the copperband and can withstand some bullying from a purple tang.

Any recommendations?

My tank:

 

[i cant think]

I need a butterfly fish for aiptasia control. I don't care for reef safe ones.

Also I'd like one thats not shy like the copperband and can withstand some bullying from a purple tang.

Any recommendations?

My tank:

None unfortunately, No butterfly will withstand tang aggression unless it’s the smaller Ctenochaetus species. Even if there was one it would be one of the three from the genus Chelmon. I’ve tried all three with a scopas tang already established, none survived. With an established purple tang you’re limited to fish and one of the families off limits at this point are the butterflies. Also forget just the one tang, you have a yellow in there too. No fish would survive both tangs being aggressive towards it unless that new fish was just as aggressive if not worse unfortunately.

 

[unklez]

None unfortunately, No butterfly will withstand tang aggression unless it’s the smaller Ctenochaetus species. Even if there was one it would be one of the three from the genus Chelmon. I’ve tried all three with a scopas tang already established, none survived. With an established purple tang you’re limited to fish and one of the families off limits at this point are the butterflies. Also forget just the one tang, you have a yellow in there too. No fish would survive both tangs being aggressive towards it unless that new fish was just as aggressive if not worse unfortunately.

The yellow is actually not agressive to any fish and they both respect the moorish idol as their king :> Just the purple is being a D to ALL new fish upon the first week or 2.

 

[Crotalus]

I need a butterfly fish for aiptasia control. I don't care for reef safe ones.

Also I'd like one thats not shy like the copperband and can withstand some bullying from a purple tang.

Any recommendations?

My tank:

I have two sailfins, two yellows, a hippo, and a tomini. I recently added 3 pyramid butterfly fish. Some initial aggression, but that died down. Unfortunately, one of the butterfly fish killed the other two.

That was a total surprise. I see multiple pyramids in other people tanks all the time. They don't seem to eat aptasia though.

 

[i cant think]

I have two sailfins, two yellows, a hippo, and a tomini. I recently added 3 pyramid butterfly fish. Some initial aggression, but that died down. Unfortunately, one of the butterfly fish killed the other two.

That was a total surprise. I see multiple pyramids in other people tanks all the time. They don't seem to eat aptasia though.

Pyramid butterflyfish aren’t always friendly depending on gender and territory left. A tang will claim most of the territory meaning the fish have to fight for the remaining territories/territory. Pyramid and Zosters are not known to eat aptaisia, only Both YLNBs, CBB, Chelmon marginalis and Chelmon muelleri are known to eat them.

Also, even if a tang doesn’t go after other new fish it most likely will if they’re similar in any way:
- Grazing for the same food
- Body shape
- Colour pattern
And so on, a butterflyfish and any Zebrasoma tang is risky for the butterflies life.

 

[Zionas]

The problem with having multiple Pyramid Butterflies is kind of like the problems people can encounter when keeping multiple Tangs of the same species: We do not know how exactly their social structure works and whether them grouping together is just a temporary arrangement for safety in the wild. We don’t know how much they actually “want” to be together and furthermore, if Pyramid Butterflies are like any other butterflies their sexual allocation is either unclear or gonochoristic (meaning they don’t change sex). Same goes for Tangs, we just aren’t sure whether they change sex or not and many could turn out to be gonochoristic.

With angels, for example, we clearly know that at least the vast majority of them, if not all of them, are protogynous hermaphrodites which means they start off female and a dominant one becomes the male. Pairing and harem dynamics are well known for angels as a family, and one or both are their preferred social units depending on location, availability of conspecifics, and space. This is not the case with fish like Tangs and Butterflies.

I agree with @i cant think that having an established Purple AND Yellow will present challenges for any butterfly. OrionN keeps a pair of Regal Angels (Wild caught) and a Copperband and he strongly believes that especially in the case of butterflies (his Copperband as an example), they must be established before the presence of active and more boisterous fish. Butterflies, even the hardier ones, may well choose to not eat out of stress. The family as a whole requires someone degree of forethought and special care with regards to tank mates.

So in my opinion, this will be a risk that has to be weighed. If you have the means to do so, you could put the butterfly in an acclimation box and see how the Tangs respond to it, but why stress out the fish that way. You could also temporarily remove the Tangs but that I assume would also take a fair amount of work. I would probably look for something else.

Would you consider some kind of angel?

Both butterflies and angels are beautiful fish. When it comes to colors angels beat butterflies by a small to medium margin, when it comes to body shapes both groups contain many pretty species.

(I see you are not specifically looking for a reef safe butterfly but butterflies in general just don’t stand up too well to any aggressive or even somewhat assertive species, so I would reconsider and maybe look for another way to get rid of Aiptasia, of which I’m not an expert.)

 

[lion king]

The racoon is a butterfly that can play with the big boys.

 

[Miami Reef]

Aiptasia eating filefish.

Be weary that most of the aiptasia predators may nip at some corals.

Nice moorish idol.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Will eat some corals. Especially the showstopping, fluffy, and brightly coloured micromussa colonies (and elegance coral, for that matter) that you've been babying for the past year or two.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Your best bet is kalk paste in a syringe or julian's thing.

Butterflies will get bullied by tangs in a tank that size and even if they don't they are all hit or miss. Any of the aiptasia eating ones often don't distinguish between aiptasia and coral polyps. Some are obligate corallivores in the wild and will eat your corals. In a huge tank with huge colonies you can get away with that, but not with LPS and especially not small frags like those. They might not eat aiptasia at all, then you have to rehome it and you may have lost several colonies for nothing.

Maybe you can try peppermint shrimp, but those are also known to get frisky with corals sooner or later. Berghia nudibranchs often starve out before the last aiptasia is dead.

 

[casey012293]

I need a butterfly fish for aiptasia control. I don't care for reef safe ones.

Also I'd like one thats not shy like the copperband and can withstand some bullying from a purple tang.

Any recommendations?

My tank:

I love your aquascape! Also that idol is a beautiful addition!

 

[zheka757]

I have coperband in my 400g tank with 8 tang. They don't mind each other. Btw, this is my second coperband in this tank. First one was dead for unknown reasons one day. And I put second one couple month later with. And tangs didn't mind second one also.

 

[Zionas]

How big is your tank?

 

[i cant think]

I have coperband in my 400g tank with 8 tang. They don't mind each other. Btw, this is my second coperband in this tank. First one was dead for unknown reasons one day. And I put second one couple month later with. And tangs didn't mind second one also.

Just a few questions:
As Zionas mentioned, what is the tank dimensions. And also what species of tang were in originally? I would be alright adding Butterflies with a Ctenochaetus or a mild Naso (Although if I’m correct your tank isn’t 14 foot long and to me the Naso genus need 14 foot long tanks but I won’t get into that yet). I say that because Ctenochaetus especially the smaller ones tend to be calmer and not so aggressive, any Naso tang tends to be the big peacekeeper (Similar to foxfaces in smaller tanks IMO).
It may have been a VERY rare occurrence however, my Magnificent foxface helots my CBB to eat any algae, aptaisia ect.. off of the rocks from my nano, tangs completely ignore these fish because of their venomous spines (The same reason why most people avoid any fish from Siganiidae).

 

[zheka757]

Just a few questions:
As Zionas mentioned, what is the tank dimensions. And also what species of tang were in originally? I would be alright adding Butterflies with a Ctenochaetus or a mild Naso (Although if I’m correct your tank isn’t 14 foot long and to me the Naso genus need 14 foot long tanks but I won’t get into that yet). I say that because Ctenochaetus especially the smaller ones tend to be calmer and not so aggressive, any Naso tang tends to be the big peacekeeper (Similar to foxfaces in smaller tanks IMO).
It may have been a VERY rare occurrence however, my Magnificent foxface helots my CBB to eat any algae, aptaisia ect.. off of the rocks from my nano, tangs completely ignore these fish because of their venomous spines (The same reason why most people avoid any fish from Siganiidae).

3 yellow, 2 purple, 1 gem, 1 blue, 1 Achilles, in a 8ft long tank, all tangs are 4-7'' in size.
I was just sharing my experience with my display tank, as i also have aiptasia problem in my entire system. maybe Im just lucky with the tangs collection i got. im currently quarantining another copperband for my frag tank. and i keep getting poor fish as they dont even make it alive out of quarantine period. All im trying to say is butterfly fish in general is just a PITA fish to keep,

 

[vetteguy53081]

My copperband puts up with 17 tangs well

 

[zheka757]

My copperband puts up with 17 tangs well

17! how big is your pool? lol

 

[vetteguy53081]

17! how big is your pool? lol

Over 600 but currently in a 135g while I do some disconnecting and prep

 

[Zionas]

600 sounds like a pretty big tank. How are you going to move it across states?

 

[i cant think]

3 yellow, 2 purple, 1 gem, 1 blue, 1 Achilles, in a 8ft long tank, all tangs are 4-7'' in size.
I was just sharing my experience with my display tank, as i also have aiptasia problem in my entire system. maybe Im just lucky with the tangs collection i got. im currently quarantining another copperband for my frag tank. and i keep getting poor fish as they dont even make it alive out of quarantine period. All im trying to say is butterfly fish in general is just a PITA fish to keep,

If I remember correctly butterflyfish are one of the families of fish that are EXTREMELY sensitive to QT and Copper in specific, other families like this are:
- Tangs
- Tilefish
- Rabbitfish (I think)
- Anampses & Macropharyngodon wrasse
If you dose copper but don’t keep it under control that is most likely why they die, these fish aren’t a PITA if you get them in with a peaceful introduction (Absolutely no aggression). I wouldn’t risk adding any more fish in with those tangs, especially the Zebrasoma tangs since they have a very similar body shape and will most likely kill the new CBB depending on its size. With those tangs, I have NEVER been successful adding a CBB with. I have had experience with all of these tangs and a CBB, the yellows and purples were brutal with the CBB unless it was added first. The gems were 50/50 and the Achilles when they got established hated any new fish (I couldn’t add new fish into the 7’ display tank we had in the first store I worked in - The fish ended up being sold because it was doing so well and we preferred a display with many smaller fish than larger fish).