Buyer Beware: Misleading LED Fixture Output

Right- potentially, if these cheap fixtures were using the newest and greatest of LED technology, their wattage could be less and yet they output equivalent par. But we are talking about the cheap fixtures that even use that meager 60w at an even worse par/watt efficiency.

People are picking at tiny details, when in the end, my point still stands and manufacturers are trying to fool people into thinking that their fixtures are as powerful as others using “theoretical l wattage” or whatever else you want to call it.

[edited, spelling+ clarity]

A few people here must have too much time on their hands with this getting into the weeds and all. If a fixture has 100w of leds but only draws 50w from the wall, stay away from them.

Getting caught up in optics and efficiency is a bit nuts. You’ll probably find that most everything is using the same leds.

What I care about it customer service and company history. As mentioned, Radions and Hydras run their leds as the manufacturer advises. They also use active cooling so that a super massive heatsink isn’t required to move the heat.


The savings from a Chinese box isn’t worth the time and effort evaluating design to me. That’s why I stick with known fixtures.
 
If a fixture has 100w of leds but only draws 50w from the wall, stay away from them.
Why? They run cooler therefore they last longer.
Secondly photon output isn't linear w/ current so less current(watts) increases efficiency..
Granted it's not "crucial"
Like if you run a diode at 500mA and get X output. Increase it to 1000mA you don't get 2x output. more like 1.75X.. ;)
Err .1.66X
creexm.JPG
running 2 @ 1000mA is more "efficient" than running one at 2000mA..
note alse if manuf recommended current is linked to bin test parameters then you shouldn't run them over 750mA for 100% output..
a-Light-output-power-versus-injected-current-L-I-curve-and-b-external-quantum.png

Personally, would rather have more diodes run at lower currents than fewer diodes on the bleeding current edge of failure..
Easier to cool and will last longer..
Besides, if you think about Kessil and their "logic" you will see that the lights run at only 50% of their potential..

What I care about it customer service and company history.
Yes important...but some of us could rebuild or mod a black box in a heartbeat.. not so much the others..also really not important.
You know, there are those that believe expensive products should rarely require customer service..;)


As mentioned, Radions and Hydras run their leds as the manufacturer advises. They also use active cooling so that a super massive heatsink isn’t required to move the heat.
some people hate fans.. ;) of course bb uses fans and skimpy heat sinks which they can get away w/ under driving the LED's
Life's a bunch of trade offs.. some good for some people some not..

Phillips coral care uses a massive heatsink and no fans.. ;)
 
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The OP isn't talking about black boxes. He's talking a lower cost bar from a company that also makes expensive full featured fixtures.
 
The fixtures are also drop shipped from china. They accidentally left the price tag on it -- It was about $60 according to my friend.

Check out the ReefBreeders LumenBar <--- LINK -- Looks to be the exact same fixture through and through
 
Interesting. RB doesn't list watts. They have a 60" which people have been asking this other company for.
I did order a very similar looking bar off of Amazon with a grow light spectrum for my horizontal "river" algae scrubber. I thought it was identical but had a lot of differences when it came in, most notably a much smaller driver. Works great for what I wanted but was definitely not the same as the other bars I ordered in. It would be interesting to see for sure on the RB.
 
The fixtures are also drop shipped from china. They accidentally left the price tag on it -- It was about $60 according to my friend.

Check out the ReefBreeders LumenBar <--- LINK -- Looks to be the exact same fixture through and through

RB, OceanRevive, SBreef... all straight chinese fixtures, although they do modify the layout sometimes. I think they provide a good product at a great price. Are we going to act like Ecotech, Kessil, AI are made in the USA?
 
RB, OceanRevive, SBreef... all straight chinese fixtures, although they do modify the layout sometimes. I think they provide a good product at a great price. Are we going to act like Ecotech, Kessil, AI are made in the USA?

If you think it's about the product being made in China you're missing the point completely... And if you're comparing obvious chinese brands to Ecotech, AI, or Kessil then i'm not even sure you know what you're trying to say.

What i'm saying is these fixtures were never designed by ANY of those companies. It's a straight chinese fixture that had zero relation in any way to Orphek, Reef Breeders, or other companies, purchased, and drop shipped from china. From the companies you listed, Reef Breeders, Coral Box, SBReef, Ocean Revive... well DUH.... But we expect more from Orphek, EcoTech, Kessil, AI. They may be MADE in china, but they are at least legitimate products which have gone through R&D and been designed.

This is a pre existing product that these companies are buying for $30-60 and having drop shipped from china for $120+. If we do a little digging we can probably buy them direct from China for half the price, just like Orphek, or RB.
 
If you think it's about the product being made in China you're missing the point completely... And if you're comparing obvious chinese brands to Ecotech, AI, or Kessil then i'm not even sure you know what you're trying to say.

What i'm saying is these fixtures were never designed by ANY of those companies. It's a straight chinese fixture that had zero relation in any way to Orphek, Reef Breeders, or other companies, purchased, and drop shipped from china. From the companies you listed, Reef Breeders, Coral Box, SBReef, Ocean Revive... well DUH.... But we expect more from Orphek, EcoTech, Kessil, AI. They may be MADE in china, but they are at least legitimate products which have gone through R&D and been designed.

This is a pre existing product that these companies are buying for $30-60 and having drop shipped from china for $120+. If we do a little digging we can probably buy them direct from China for half the price, just like Orphek, or RB.

I said basically the same thing in my post, what point are you trying to make? They all grow coral well.
 
If you think it's about the product being made in China you're missing the point completely... And if you're comparing obvious chinese brands to Ecotech, AI, or Kessil then i'm not even sure you know what you're trying to say.

What i'm saying is these fixtures were never designed by ANY of those companies. It's a straight chinese fixture that had zero relation in any way to Orphek, Reef Breeders, or other companies, purchased, and drop shipped from china. From the companies you listed, Reef Breeders, Coral Box, SBReef, Ocean Revive... well DUH.... But we expect more from Orphek, EcoTech, Kessil, AI. They may be MADE in china, but they are at least legitimate products which have gone through R&D and been designed.

This is a pre existing product that these companies are buying for $30-60 and having drop shipped from china for $120+. If we do a little digging we can probably buy them direct from China for half the price, just like Orphek, or RB.

Sadly, that is just mostly normal US business.


and blanket statements about rebranded (i,e SBReef, Orphek light bars, reefbreeders,ect) don't always apply.
There is differences in the products sometimes even if externally they look identical. Be it better LED bins, better drivers, ect.. BUT no way of really knowing, which is more of a "problem " .
Only the factory knows for sure really.
 
I'd like to set the record straight here. I tested PAR and now this morning Watts on the two bars I have. The PAR was phenomenal and pretty even.

I am not an electrician nor an electrical engineer, so I don't know why others are getting such low numbers. I'd think either they're measuring with a bad unit, or, their bars are faulty. Might be worth double checking and / or getting a second measuring device.


Just used the Kill A Watt. By the way, this was like $30 on Amazon with free shipping I don't know exactly because it was so cheap I didn't really study it. It's a Kill A Watt brand model P3.

BOY am I glad I got this.

Remember, I have two bars, I purchased one in June and one in August. Both are 48" (120cm) one a semi custom Sky Blue and the other standard Sky Blue. So, they both have 36 LEDs at 3 watts each LED. Should pull 108w.

Semi custom Sky blue is registering 122.1-122.7! If you use one of the Kill A Watt, they bounce around a little on the number after the decimal point. I'm sure an electrical engineer could tell us why.
Full Sky Blue was pulling 121.9-122.2!

Not bad in my book!
 
Hey, my bad all. A new tester and low light where I was using it. I did NOT have it on Watts. Watts running 64-68 between the two bars. However, the PAR I'm getting is so good.
 
to be honest.. That's expected...
They run the bars at 550mA per "string" well 1.1A/2 (18x2)....
 
What kind of Par numbers?
I'd like to set the record straight here. I tested PAR and now this morning Watts on the two bars I have. The PAR was phenomenal and pretty even.

I am not an electrician nor an electrical engineer, so I don't know why others are getting such low numbers. I'd think either they're measuring with a bad unit, or, their bars are faulty. Might be worth double checking and / or getting a second measuring device.


Just used the Kill A Watt. By the way, this was like $30 on Amazon with free shipping I don't know exactly because it was so cheap I didn't really study it. It's a Kill A Watt brand model P3.

BOY am I glad I got this.

Remember, I have two bars, I purchased one in June and one in August. Both are 48" (120cm) one a semi custom Sky Blue and the other standard Sky Blue. So, they both have 36 LEDs at 3 watts each LED. Should pull 108w.

Semi custom Sky blue is registering 122.1-122.7! If you use one of the Kill A Watt, they bounce around a little on the number after the decimal point. I'm sure an electrical engineer could tell us why.
Full Sky Blue was pulling 121.9-122.2!

Not bad in my book!
 
Ah, Savoyard, I thought I had posted in this thread. Here is from about a week ago:

OK, I'll probably start another thread to document some of this.
Lately there's been some speculation on watts used and Orphek saying they're working on some improvements.

My tank is a 150g 72" x 18" deep x 27"tall with about 1" sand bed.
I used an Apogee 210 and numbers are NOT corrected (just for @jda ;)). I figure since (per BRS) all units were non-correcting up until recently, not sure the 1.32x matters when comparing to what others have measured over the years. If you didn't see it, go check out BRS video where they found out the 500 series actually had a software issue and were not correcting for under water measuring.
I have two 120cm bars with 90 degree optics. One purchased in June, one in August 2018.
A Sky Blue is mounted at the back of my tank angled forward at 45 degrees and a Sky Blue with 10 of the most predominant color substituted with their 12k, mounted at the front at a 30 degree angle.
Both of these were purchased to help cut shading from my main fixture which is a Reef Breeders Photon V2 50.
I ramped the bars up, one at a time, one hour more every other day, to 8 hours, starting with 2 hours.
I lost one coral possibly to light towards the end so reduced my Photon by 20%. Photon is now running at max 36% on blues and UV, 12% on Green and Red, and 9% only on whites.
I did the above without a PAR meter which was pretty stupid! I had previously measured PAR with just the photon at 44%/12% SPS AB+ and was getting about 275 PAR mid tank 7" below water surface and about 60 on the front sand bed

Yesterday with Photon at 36/12/9% as above, and the two bars, I measured 475 PAR at the 7" below water mid tank! Remember this is with the Photon reduced by over 20% from when I got 275 PAR with it alone. So, bars seemed to easily be adding at least 200 PAR.

This morning before main fixture on I kicked on both bars. I did not test with only one bar, but did take near bar readings just above water. They seem about equal in PAR at same distance even though different spectrums.
The front bar SB/12k is 5" above water and 600 PAR at water, just above surface.
Rear bar, SB is 7" above water and 500 PAR at water, just above surface. At 5" air it was about 575PAR.

The best comparison is at the same 7" below water, mid tank, PAR with just two bars was 290 PAR!
Sand bed
Left side front sand bed about 6" back from glass getting 177 PAR with just two bars about 25" deep.

So, there has been some random readings and discussion about how many watts these bars use. I don't have a Kil-O-Watt, but might get one.
Here's the deal, I don't really care what the WATTS are, I care about PAR and quality of the light.
I have notice very good improvements in corals since adding these bars and reducing my main fixture. I'm sure some is reduced shading and more even coverage, but also feel some is light quality. However that is subjective.
I will say I'm looking at going 100% OR light bars with improvements I've seen so far.

Thanks,
Todd
 
Hey, my bad all. A new tester and low light where I was using it. I did NOT have it on Watts. Watts running 64-68 between the two bars. However, the PAR I'm getting is so good.

You're saying BOTH 48" bars use a total of 70w? As in 35 each?
 
The Harold, sorry I missed your post!
No, each bar was running mid to upper 60's watts. I think one was 68 and the other 64.
My tank has improved a lot from adding these bars and I've reduced my main fixture by about 40%.
 

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