Bye bye Reef Factory - Hello Apex!

[CasperOe]

Hi Reefers

After months of frustration, I cut ties with all my equipment from Reef Factory this morning for a number of reasons; none of my gear ever really worked and although the support was great one can only have so many exchanges before enough is enough.

I will changing my controller and automation to the Neptune Apex as I am based in the UK. Honestly, I would have gone with Hydros if I could but we do not have that luxury over here just yet.

Q: Trident or Alka/Mastertronic?

While I have a pretty good idea about what I, I still have some reservations with regards to the Trident. I have seen my fair share of mixed reviews; I am just tired of struggling with equipment that doesn't work- so what is your best recommendations and experience? As an added consideration, I really do not like the size of the DOS pumps, I was considering the Dosetronic in stead.

If above comes across as a little confused; well - I am

Cheers!

 

[blaxsun]

The DOS are bulky but incredibly reliable. My Trident has been running for 2 years now (YMMV). I went with the DOS, DDR and Trident as I like the point-and-click setup for Trident-controlled dosing (and having supplement levels in my control panel).

If you calibrate your Trident manually (using your titration test results), recalibrate every 2 months (when replacing reagents) and clean the cuvette every 6 months or so it provides fairly consistent results.

Same for the DOS - recalibrate the DOS heads to ensure they're providing accurate dosing amounts.

 

[CasperOe]

The DOS are bulky but incredibly reliable. My Trident has been running for 2 years now (YMMV). I went with the DOS, DDR and Trident as I like the point-and-click setup for Trident-controlled dosing (and having supplement levels in my control panel).

If you calibrate your Trident manually (using your titration test results), recalibrate every 2 months (when replacing reagents) and clean the cuvette every 6 months or so it provides fairly consistent results.

Same for the DOS - recalibrate the DOS heads to ensure they're providing accurate dosing amounts.

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it! Likewise with the Alka/Mastertronic solution I have seen a number of mixed reviews.

I assume a lot of it comes from the fact that you rarely hear about things that 'just work'.

 

[spsick]

OP, can you offer an opinion on the KH Keeper If you used it?

As the other poster said my DOS has also been extremely reliable.

 

[blaxsun]

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it! Likewise with the Alka/Mastertronic solution I have seen a number of mixed reviews.

I assume a lot of it comes from the fact that you rarely hear about things that 'just work'.

I consult and check on 5 different Neptune systems currently (including the newest Apex models) and for the most part they work as advertised. I've also read lots of horror stories, so take this with a grain of salt.

My own personal experiences:

My Trident failed to work properly "out-of-the-box" but a call to Neptune support was able to resolve the issue within 48 hours.

A Neptune software update screwed up my PMK (PAR) reader and I didn't feel like paying/sending the module and sensor back to Neptune to get recalibrated (since I felt this really should've been on them).

And my AFS (feeder) died after 2 years (out of warranty). I haven't decided if I'm going to send it back for assessment/repairs as I have another one anyway.

 

[CasperOe]

OP, can you offer an opinion on the KH Keeper If you used it?

As the other poster said my DOS has also been extremely reliable.

It is great, honestly- when it works! I might have been unlucky with a fair bit of my Reef Factory kit- here's a short list of the problems with my KH Keeper Plus:

- PH Probe changed twice
- New PH Probe drifting leading to wrong readings
- One dosing head changed
- Magnetic stirrer broken (full unit replaced)

Now, through all of this, Reef Factory Support has been great- nothing was ever questioned if I had any issues and parts were replaced and fixed promptly through the UK supplier.


Other issues I have had with RF equipment:
- Dosing pump continuously loosing WiFi connectivity
- Salinity probe changed three times
- Dosing pump recalled / replaced

 

[JoJosReef]

Also interested in experience with KH Keeper. I just ordered an x3 pump :-/ but that us for food dosing and AFR.

 

[CasperOe]

I consult and check on 5 different Neptune systems currently (including the newest Apex models) and for the most part they work as advertised. I've also read lots of horror stories, so take this with a grain of salt.

My own personal experiences:

My Trident failed to work properly "out-of-the-box" but a call to Neptune support was able to resolve the issue within 48 hours.

A Neptune software update screwed up my PMK (PAR) reader and I didn't feel like paying/sending the module and sensor back to Neptune to get recalibrated (since I felt this really should've been on them).

And my AFS (feeder) died after 2 years (out of warranty). I haven't decided if I'm going to send it back for assessment/repairs as I have another one anyway.

Thank you very much, it does indeed sound like the equipment for the most part works as intended- and that the service is top notch should you require it.

I am not sure about the UK distributor but I am sure they offer the same level of support.

 

[CasperOe]

Also interested in experience with KH Keeper. I just ordered an x3 pump :-/ but that us for food dosing and AFR.

I am sure you will be happy with it, in all honesty; the one I had after it was recalled has been working flawlessly apart from occasional WiFi issues..

One dosing head is losing calibration faster than the other three though but calibration once every month seems to keep it in check.

 

[Poochaku]

probably trident but do the math for your maintenance costs and see if the alkatronic or the new kh unit from kamoer make sense for you

Consider trident ABC reagents vs DIY acid titration reagent. personally prefer the vastly lower running costs of the latter.

 

[David_CO]

My 2 cents.

I have a Kh keeper plus, alkatronic and trident. By far the alkatronic is the best, it’s rock solid. The only downside to the alkatronic is it’s loud and fairly large.The trident is mostly good if you calibrate with tank water using a number of manual test kits for baseline values. If you use the calibration solution you might end up over .7 dkh off from bottle to bottle. My trident runs 4 times a day (2 combined, 2 alk only) I’ve noticed a pattern in results if it’s a combined test vs alk only. When a combined test is ran the cal/mag test runs before the alk test. I don’t believe the vial is being rinsed enough between tests.

I’ve only had the kh keeper for ~2 months. For me their support has been beyond abysmal. My original ph probe was dead on arrival reading 1300 ph in any solution (yes 1300). I swapped it with a spare Neptune probe and now it’s working fine. I’ve had a support ticket open for 7 weeks. During that period they asked for my shipping info, they didn’t respond to any of my inquires (5-6 emails) for over a month after that. I still have no idea when they will ship a replacement probe. If I was a normal person without a ton of extra equipment this thing would still be DOA. I cannot recommend anyone buy anything from reef factory based on my experience.

as far as reagents go you can’t beat the ph based alk tests. I mix up gallon jugs for my kh keeper and alkatronic (same concentration), it’s dirt cheap and lasts a long time. I’ve experimented with ABC reagents for the last 2 months and I would say it’s just as good and dare I say marginally better than the Neptune reagents. I’ve noticed a closer correlation in alk values with the trident and the ph based titration machines on the same tank.

 

[Pistondog]

Dos noisy at higher speeds if you care. I use versas for awcs.

 

[CasperOe]

My 2 cents.

I have a Kh keeper plus, alkatronic and trident. By far the alkatronic is the best, it’s rock solid. The only downside to the alkatronic is it’s loud and fairly large.The trident is mostly good if you calibrate with tank water using a number of manual test kits for baseline values. If you use the calibration solution you might end up over .7 dkh off from bottle to bottle. My trident runs 4 times a day (2 combined, 2 alk only) I’ve noticed a pattern in results if it’s a combined test vs alk only. When a combined test is ran the cal/mag test runs before the alk test. I don’t believe the vial is being rinsed enough between tests.

I’ve only had the kh keeper for ~2 months. For me their support has been beyond abysmal. My original ph probe was dead on arrival reading 1300 ph in any solution (yes 1300). I swapped it with a spare Neptune probe and now it’s working fine. I’ve had a support ticket open for 7 weeks. During that period they asked for my shipping info, they didn’t respond to any of my inquires (5-6 emails) for over a month after that. I still have no idea when they will ship a replacement probe. If I was a normal person without a ton of extra equipment this thing would still be DOA. I cannot recommend anyone buy anything from reef factory based on my experience.

as far as reagents go you can’t beat the ph based alk tests. I mix up gallon jugs for my kh keeper and alkatronic (same concentration), it’s dirt cheap and lasts a long time. I’ve experimented with ABC reagents for the last 2 months and I would say it’s just as good and dare I say marginally better than the Neptune reagents. I’ve noticed a closer correlation in alk values with the trident and the ph based titration machines on the same tank.

Thank you, that's valuable information indeed! I do have my Apex coming through the door today, the Alkatronic will follow in a couple of weeks once I've been paid again - expensive hobby when you buy the wrong things!

Q: If you run an Apex, could you share a picture of how the Alkatronic ties in with the dashboard?

I am planning on running All For Reef using the dosing pump in the Alkatronic.. Hopefully it will serve me better than the KH Keeper

 

[David_CO]

The alkatronic connects to the apex via a BNC connector, it’s my “ALK” labeled chart.

you won’t want to use the dosing pump in the alkatronic with AFR, the alkatronic dosing pump is meant to be used for low alk adjustments not regular dosing. When my all goes below a certain threshold it puts in a certain amount of alk solution. AFR takes a long time to work, you want soda ash or similar for that dosing pump.

 

[doubleshot00]

I consult and check on 5 different Neptune systems currently (including the newest Apex models) and for the most part they work as advertised. I've also read lots of horror stories, so take this with a grain of salt.

My own personal experiences:

My Trident failed to work properly "out-of-the-box" but a call to Neptune support was able to resolve the issue within 48 hours.

A Neptune software update screwed up my PMK (PAR) reader and I didn't feel like paying/sending the module and sensor back to Neptune to get recalibrated (since I felt this really should've been on them).

And my AFS (feeder) died after 2 years (out of warranty). I haven't decided if I'm going to send it back for assessment/repairs as I have another one anyway.

Yeah if you follow the apex FB group you see lots of fails but half of them are user error imo. Apex needs to own up to there products and they do half the time. There CS has been lacking a lot imo.

I want a Trident but i don't know of one person that's had one that was flawless. They all have had issues. I also want a AFS but look at the reviews.

I love my apex but it also scares the you know what out of me sometimes. Ive had an issue here and there but the new updates are the scary part. They are physically frying peoples apex brains. Like how the H does that happen.

I dont like the fact Apex has curbed the market a little and we are stuck with there poorly made products. Hydros just doesn't do the same.

 

[blaxsun]

Yeah if you follow the apex FB group you see lots of fails but half of them are user error imo. Apex needs to own up to there products and they do half the time. There CS has been lacking a lot imo.

I want a Trident but i don't know of one person that's had one that was flawless. They all have had issues. I also want a AFS but look at the reviews.

I love my apex but it also scares the you know what out of me sometimes. Ive had an issue here and there but the new updates are the scary part. They are physically frying peoples apex brains. Like how the H does that happen.

I dont like the fact Apex has curbed the market a little and we are stuck with there poorly made products. Hydros just doesn't do the same.

My Trident has been flawless, but I'm possibly the exception rather than the rule. I do clean the cuvette every 4-6 months and recalibrate it every time I replace a batch of reagents (2-3 months on average). Trust... but verify.

My Apex has been ok with the software updates - it's the PMK module that apparently got nuked. It still works, the PAR meter just wont read anymore.

The newer Apex models seem to be better constructed, and I have nothing but praise for the new LLS and LDK sensors.

 

[doubleshot00]

My Trident has been flawless, but I'm possibly the exception rather than the rule. I do clean the cuvette every 4-6 months and recalibrate it every time I replace a batch of reagents (2-3 months on average). Trust... but verify.

My Apex has been ok with the software updates - it's the PMK module that apparently got nuked. It still works, the PAR meter just wont read anymore.

The newer Apex models seem to be better constructed, and I have nothing but praise for the new LLS and LDK sensors.

I hate the new LLS's. Total pain to calibrate and they are never spot on. Either off +- 1-2". And apex is like "no that's how they work".

 

[blaxsun]

I hate the new LLS's. Total pain to calibrate and they are never spot on. Either off +- 1-2". And apex is like "no that's how they work".

I dropped mine in the RO reservoir - measured correctly out-of-the-bag. YMMV...

 

[Brucealmighty]

I have a trident on a full system, I dose with jaebo, although I do have moonlight, wave pumps and auto feeder system plugged in with a standard off the shelf crud tablet for a display via WiFi, only issue that I have had is (being in the UK like yourself), is that finding stockists of reagents that don't take the mick on price is difficult might be a plan to get a few trident owners to chip in on the 6 months supply other than that no worries it's saved my tank from a crash this year in winter, only costing me a days pay and a new heater so A1 10 out of 10 for the apex just need to go to college to find out how to get my moonlight back on to original setting

 

[doubleshot00]

I dropped mine in the RO reservoir - measured correctly out-of-the-bag. YMMV...