Calcium levels in SALT MIX.

[racin2438]

I have been using IO reef crystals for about 1y, but lately last 2 boxes have extremely low levels of cal,alk,mag.
My premix from last box was ..
Salifert. ..........Hanna
Cal 270 290

Alk 3.9 4.3

Mag 890 950

I also tested a new unopened box, and 5 other boxes from 2 friends that have the same salt boxes, and those readings were also very very close to my numbers.

I have new filters on my RODI unit, new BRS resin, my water is preheated as per IO tech line, yet when I question the salt , they say the salt is absolutely good and nothing wrong. That is has to be at my end.
So I have sampled and mixed premix from 7 boxes in total with all test results being almost exactly the same.

I have mix quite a few thousands of gallons of water , and pretty sure I'm doing it right..

Hopefully Mr. HOLMES give me some advice.

 

[Justiful]

I am far from an expert. I am likely stating what you planned on doing anyway. But maybe my saying it will help you realize you where right.

Occam's razor - The simplest solution is usually the correct one.

Simplest would have been you did it wrong. But your experience mixing shows that is not likely.

But to disprove it, get a different brand of salt mix. Mix it. Test it. If it is near stated values on the label, you know you got a bad batch of salt with IO. If it isn't you did something wrong. Worst case scenario you find out what you did wrong and end up with extra $20 worth of extra salt you will use anyway. Best case you prove yourself correct and already have the salt on hand that you need.

If it is a bad batch, please try and find a batch ID and post it. Someone else might also have that batch and have no idea.

Oh and test your salinity on that batch... If it is low, odds are you didn't mix enough but you already tried that probably. But just in case it slipped your mind.

Other people with your issue: (recent)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24232063
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2485308

Other people who got bad batches and lost all their fish using RC.
(2012)
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-89006.html
(2008) dr.fosters and smith voluntarily sent out supplements and made it right for people who had bad batches. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1286271

Your post in march --
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/instant-ocean-reef-crystals.194999/
Might be an ongoing problem you should likely just switch salts. As you posted before about incorrect values.

The problem appears to be common to that specific brand, and occurs frequently. Now just imagine all the people who don't test there salt mix before adding except salinity. Which is the majority.

Sorry but there are TONS of posts about bad batches of this product on the net. I doubt that many people got bad test results. OCCAM's Razor yet again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't believe it especially likely that these are all bad batches (especially since you are the only one I've seen reporting this), and most such reports on the net are not, but I can't know for sure. Testing error is way more common than many folks realize.

In this case, low salinity would explain all the results.

How are you measuring salinity and what was it?

 

[Cory]

Also if the salt hardened a little due to moisture it will reduce calcium.

 

[racin2438]

salinity mixed to 1.025.
I have had water samples tested at 2 LFS, with same low results. And bought a small box of REDSEA salt and TROPIC MARIN and they have great premix reading.......

so what does that tell you guys.........

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How did you measure the salinity and how did you calibrate the device measuring it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How large of a batch are you making from each bag? A small sample can be off due to settling, but that wouldn't likely happen to 7 bags in exactly the same way.

 

[racin2438]

I don't believe it especially likely that these are all bad batches (especially since you are the only one I've seen reporting this), and most such reports on the net are not, but I can't know for sure. Testing error is way more common than many folks realize.

In this case, low salinity would explain all the results.

How are you measuring salinity and what was it?

mixing to 1.025, using 2 refractors the standard one from Marine Depot, and the Pro version from MD.
we check and calibrate every time before use. One of my buddies also has a Milwaukie electronic tester and it comes up the same 1.025

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

OK, so even if you miscalibrated them by using RO/DI water instead of a 35 ppt standard, they won't be off by this much (unless they claim to be true seawater refractometers, pure fresh water is not the best way to calibrate ).

At 1.025 the levels will be on the low side since you are not at 35 ppt, but should not be this low.
What are the units of measure used for the alk values? dKH? meg/L?

If dKH it is low, if meq/ L is it OK.

 

[racin2438]

How large of a batch are you making from each bag? A small sample can be off due to settling, but that wouldn't likely happen to 7 bags in exactly the same way.

we mix 1-- 50g bag at a time as we use the Brute 44g cans. Even though it 50g bag we only get 44g out of it cuz IO say that they mix to a salinity of 1.020 to get 50g out of 1 bag. Being that we have Reef tank salinity is higher and therefore the 6g lost difference between a 50g bag and the 44g Brute can end result. That was IO tech dept told me. They also said that I had to mix salt with water at temp not cold water. They also told me to only add 1/3 of bag every 10-15min , not just dump entire bag. They said that way the precipitation of trace elements would be low, ie: all the brown residue on the Brute can. Since starting that procedure I have noticed a considerable drop in the brown residue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What exactly did the manufacturer do to say they were OK? Did they check batch numbers?

 

[racin2438]

OK, so even if you miscalibrated them by using RO/DI water instead of a 35 ppt standard, they won't be off by this much (unless they claim to be true seawater refractometers, pure fresh water is not the best way to calibrate ).

At 1.025 the levels will be on the low side since you are not at 35 ppt, but should not be this low.
What are the units of measure used for the alk values? dKH? meg/L?

If dKH it is low, if meq/ L is it OK.

alk with both test kits..

salifert 4.54
Hanna 4.25

mag
salifert 1050
hanna 9.80

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd suggest asking them to check the batch numbers (if any exist) and perhaps to let you mail them in for testing.

Where did you buy them? perhaps the retailer can assist if you suggest it is bad and want a refund.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

alk with both test kits..

salifert 4.54
Hanna 4.25

mag
salifert 1050
hanna 9.80

u

My question was the units of the alk test.

 

[racin2438]

What exactly did the manufacturer do to say they were OK? Did they check batch numbers?

I gave them batch numbers , they said they would call back, they never did. I called again and they said they are really busy right now , but that there salts are of good quality and that they don't have a issue whit their salt. But would get back to me later....I offered to send in salt but they seem not interested at that point.

 

[racin2438]

I'd suggest asking them to check the batch numbers (if any exist) and perhaps to let you mail them in for testing.

Where did you buy them? perhaps the retailer can assist if you suggest it is bad and want a refund.

That was my 1st call , PET SOLUTIONS .COM
but they could have cared less, they told me I had to shipped the salt back to them at my cost as they didn't consider the salt to be defective..

terrible customer service, last time I buy from them...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That's too bad.

Again your units of measure for the alk testing is dKH or meq/L?

FWIW, the Triton test will give us enough to understand the salinity as well, to know what role that might be playing.

There's no amount of precipitation that could make the magnesium and calcium drop that much based on the amount of alkalinity in a salt mix.

 

[Habib(Salifert)]

On another forum there are two threads in the past days.

One finds approx 2000 ppm Mg, verified.

Another one finds approx. 1000 ppm, not verified but likely based on his knowledge and testing history.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

On another forum there are two threads in the past days.

One finds approx 2000 ppm Mg, verified.

Another one finds approx. 1000 ppm, not verified but likely based on his knowledge and testing history.

Thanks, Habib.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have been using IO reef crystals for about 1y, but lately last 2 boxes have extremely low levels of cal,alk,mag.
My premix from last box was ..

I just spoke to someone I know at the folks who make Reef Crystals (Instant Ocean). He's been there more than 20 years.. I'll PM you with some info to talk to them and maybe get a more useful response.

That said, he indicated that every batch is QC'd multiple times and this batch would/should not have been released if these values are real.

Many people complain to them about bad batches and they have nearly always turned out to be testing errors or other issues caused by the customer.