Can Cupramine be used in display tank.

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I've only got a few minutes before leaving for work. Can I use cupramine in my dt if I take all crabs snails, shrimp etc out?

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

I must mention that I suspect I might have ich. My hippo tang has spots but none of my other fish have any. A lot of them are flashing against rocks or sand. We just recently lost our kole tang. He had no spots,just started getting very pale and thin. He ate heartily up until he passed a few nights ago. We also lost 2 cleaner shrimp within the 2 days before the kole tang. All water params are normal except my phosphates were a bit high. I added phos pads to both my fluval fx6 and fluval 406. This is a 125 g reef tank. I have been dosing with vibrant twice a week since mid november(not blaming vibrant just giving history of tank. Last wet thing added was the kole tang. He was in lfs display for 2 months before bringing him home. I did not quarantine him as per lfs saying it would stress him too much after it taking a while to catch him in his display. All others have been quarantined for 6 weeks without copper or meds, before going on display.

 

[melypr1985]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I've only got a few minutes before leaving for work. Can I use cupramine in my dt if I take all crabs snails, shrimp etc out?

I wouldn't do it simply because getting the copper back out can be very difficult and take a long time. Then there is the difficulty of keep the copper levels consistant throughout the 30 days needed for treatment. Since the rock and and will absorb copper and leach it back out again randomly, the copper levels will drop and rise randomly. If the levels drop below therapeutic range because of absorption then the 30 day clock starts over. If the copper levels rise too high because of leaching you could injure or kill fish that are more sensitive to copper treatment. A QT is the best place to do this.

If you must, and if your SURE it's ick then you can try to run HYPO in the display. You'd still have to remove your CUC and any other inverts or corals and you'd have to monitor your PH, but this could work for you. You'll need an ATO and a perfectly calibrated refractometer to do this and you'll need to keep the salinity at 1.008- 1.009 exactly the entire 30 days. Note: not all strains of ick are effected by hypo treatment there are several that arnt.

 

[Humblefish]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I've only got a few minutes before leaving for work. Can I use cupramine in my dt if I take all crabs snails, shrimp etc out?

Technically yes; but it will not be easy. For starters, you will struggle to maintain a stable Cu level in the very beginning due to the rocks/sand absorbing most of the copper. Then even once it stabilizes, you will need to test it daily to ensure therapeutic levels are being maintained. And then post treatment, getting it all out so you can safely put corals/inverts back in your system is a long, tedious task.

 

[Deinonych]

In short, I wouldn't do it. As mentioned above, the sand and rocks will adsorb copper until it reaches equilibrium in the system. This makes testing difficult and prolongs the treatment period. If the concern is removing a large number of fish from the aquarium, hyposalinity might be a better option. You'll still need to remove all invertebrates and keep a close eye on your water chemistry during the treatment period. You'll have some die-off from benthic critters and pH can drop significantly.

 

[Betty1964]

What a PITA! It appears you are using canister filtration rather than a sump. You will need to take those off line and dispose of all of the existing media. Then, clean the inside thoroughly with vinegar and allow to dry out completely. Consider replacing the hoses as well. There is no point in doing any treatment on your livestock if the filter is harboring nasties.

Since you already have an existing quarantine set up, the hyposalinity method will probably give you the results you desire with the least amount of risk.

I admit I am surprised by the shrimp loss. None of my inverts have ever been affected by ick...hmmm...

 

[Deinonych]

The shrimp loss is not due to crypto, as it only affects fish. Likely a water quality issue (high phosphates being a possibility).

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

Thank you @Humblefish @melypr1985 @Deinonych @Betty1964 for your sound advice. I am kicking myself for not following my own rules of quarantining. Is it possible that high phospate could have weakened the immune systems of my livestock and allowed the ich to make it's presence known. It just seemed to come out of nowhere. My quarantine is only a 10 g. I have our 55g that we have been trying to sell. I am thinking that would be better to use as we have quite a few fish. My concern with this idea is that it won't have time to cycle before adding the livestock to treat them. Could I use my dt water in the 55, then add the cupramine? I'll be honest, this is scaring the heck out of me as I don't feel confident enough in my knowledge or experience. My stock list is
Hippo tang
Yellow tang
Sailfin tang
2 clownfish
4 chromis
2 diamond sand sifting gobies
Tailspot blenny
Choris wrasse
Cleaner wrasse
Flasher wrasse.
Can all these be treated with cupramine? Sorry for so many questions but the lfs that we frequent (there are 3) all tell us something different so I never know which one to trust so I come to R2R where I know I'll get the best info and advice.

 

[Humblefish]

@Lori LeBlanc That's a fairly heavy QT stocklist, but a 55 should do. DT water won't really help control the ammonia, but a large HOB filter (Aquaclear 70 or 110) and a bottle of nitrifying bacteria (Seachem Stability or Dr. Tim's) will.

The good news is all of your fish are good candidates for copper treatment, provided you raise it slowly on them.

 

[melypr1985]

@Lori LeBlanc That's a fairly heavy QT stocklist, but a 55 should do. DT water won't really help control the ammonia, but a large HOB filter (Aquaclear 70 or 110) and a bottle of nitrifying bacteria (Seachem Stability or Dr. Tim's) will.

The good news is all of your fish are good candidates for copper treatment, provided you raise it slowly on them.

+1

I'll be honest, this is scaring the heck out of me as I don't feel confident enough in my knowledge or experience.

Don't worry about your ability to do it. Just go slow, one step at a time and check everything off the list as you do. We'll be here to help you out if you run into a problem or need a pep talk. I'm sure you've seen humble's sticky on how to quarantine. If you haven't give it it a read and make a check list of equipment and things to watch out for like ammonia (ammonia alert badge for that). Keep saltwater made for water changes since they will be frequent at first. Make sure you have a siphon or hose to use to get the left over food off the bottom of the tank. Go slow raising the copper levels and test often. As often as you need to feel comfortable with it. You'll do fine

 

[Reefahholic]

ohh gezzz...please don't treat in your DT. Copper in the DT is a NO NO.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

Went to all 3 lfs that are local and none carry anything like Dr. Tim's or Seachem stability. Since I have 2 canister filters, could I use the smaller Fluval 406 on the 55 g to try and avoid a cycle? I would then leave the fx6 on my dt. Once I get all the fish out of dt, there would only be shrimp, crabs, snails and corals. Will the ich still die off if leaving the tank fallow for 76 days? Sorry my mind is jumping all over with questions and concerns. Worked way too much the last few days with not enough sleep.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

@Lori LeBlanc That's a fairly heavy QT stocklist, but a 55 should do. DT water won't really help control the ammonia, but a large HOB filter (Aquaclear 70 or 110) and a bottle of nitrifying bacteria (Seachem Stability or Dr. Tim's) will.

The good news is all of your fish are good candidates for copper treatment, provided you raise it slowly on them.

I dont have access to Dr. Tims or Seachem Stability. Would Nutrifin Cycle work.

 

[melypr1985]

Once I get all the fish out of dt, there would only be shrimp, crabs, snails and corals. Will the ich still die off if leaving the tank fallow for 76 days?

Yes. Without fish ich will starve out and die. 76 days without fish and it will be safe.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

Yes. Without fish ich will starve out and die. 76 days without fish and it will be safe.

Thank you @melypr1985 . Do you think it would be ok to use my smaller canister filter on the 55g. I would take out the carbon of course but could I use the other media in it to stop the tank from cycling as it already has a bio load.

 

[melypr1985]

Thank you @melypr1985 . Do you think it would be ok to use my smaller canister filter on the 55g. I would take out the carbon of course but could I use the other media in it to stop the tank from cycling as it already has a bio load.

Probably so. You just keep the sponges that hold the bacteria... most other media will absorb copper.

 

[MamaLovesHerReefTank]

@melypr1985 @Humblefish I have everything except my cleaner wrasse and choris wrasse out of dt. Once they are out, will ich or velvet survive on hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp, rock, corals or snails. I will be leaving my tank fallow except for those things. I am contemplating changing out my sand to fresh clean sand in the process.

 

[4FordFamily]

Technically yes; but it will not be easy. For starters, you will struggle to maintain a stable Cu level in the very beginning due to the rocks/sand absorbing most of the copper. Then even once it stabilizes, you will need to test it daily to ensure therapeutic levels are being maintained. And then post treatment, getting it all out so you can safely put corals/inverts back in your system is a long, tedious task.

I agree. I've done it successfully but it's exponentially easier to use a qt/hospital tank.

 

[Deinonych]

@melypr1985 @Humblefish I have everything except my cleaner wrasse and choris wrasse out of dt. Once they are out, will ich or velvet survive on hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp, rock, corals or snails. I will be leaving my tank fallow except for those things. I am contemplating changing out my sand to fresh clean sand in the process.

Crypto (ich) can only infect fish, so leaving invertebrates in the tank during the fallow period is fine.

 

[Humblefish]

Crypto (ich) can only infect fish, so leaving invertebrates in the tank during the fallow period is fine.

+1