Can the toxins from zoas actually kill you?

[fishywishy]

My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?

 

[Stigigemla]

The last time i got poisoned i thought i was wearing full protection. Long gloves thick gloves over them rain jacket and carbon filter breathing mask. I believe i got some stains on my trousersbecause 6 hour later the legs began to itch and when i looked they both had swollen red patches in the size of a hand with spread fingers.
I went to the emergency but as they seemed occupied i waited standing up so they saw i wasn´t seriously ill or hurt.
After more than 2 hours they came to me.
I told them i was poisoned by Palytoxin, pulse 125 and no fewer but i guess they thought i was spinning.
I showed the patches and they were convinced in a second.
I stayed in the hospital 4 hours with a pulse monitor and after 4 hours the pulse had began to sink a little bit so i went home. The next day i went to work as usual.
I never saw a wet spot on the trousers.
Wen at last i succeeded in taking out the last Palytoa i was wearing raintrousers and gum boots too + i had covered the surface with active carbon.
I think for an amateur you will always miss some thing in the precautions so i say don´t handle Palytoa and be very careful with Zoanthus.
There are some storys of people that has slipped in Zoanthusfields in the Caribic and got poisoned.
But of course if you get scratched it is a good starting point for bacterial infection.
In the real life: It does not matter much. Bacterial infection or Palytoxin poisoning can both be very harmful.

 

[Jimbo]

Lots of statements that some zoa’s and Paly’s have palytoxin and some don’t. With all the named corals which ones are confirmed to have Palytoxin? For example I have a colony of “ Utter Chaos”, Palytoxin or no?

 

[Timfish]

I have spend hours looking for a confirmed case of an aquarist dying from palytoxin and haven't yet (that doesn't mean it hasn't happened and if anyone knows of any documentation please forward it to me). I have found cases of people dying from palytoxin after eating contaminated seafood at restaurants. Exposure from algae blooms along sea shores is also documented. So I guess it really depends on your risk/reward algorithm. Here's some links for those interested:

Clinical and laboratory findings implicating palytoxin as cause of ciguatera poisoning due to Decapterus macrosoma (mackerel)

A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. In addition to some of the hal…

www.sciencedirect.com

Molecular identification of Ostreopsis cf. ovata in filter feeders and putative predators

Ostreopsis ovata Fukuyo is a benthic dinoflagellate widespread from tropical to subtropical and warm temperate coastal areas world-wide. Since the spe…

www.sciencedirect.com

Fatal Dysrhythmias After Consumption of Palytoxin-Contaminated Goldspot Herring​

Palytoxin congeners | Request PDF

Request PDF | Palytoxin congeners | Palytoxin, isolated from a zoanthid of the genus Palythoa, is the most potent marine toxin known. Intoxication by palytoxin leads to... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

And this is an intriging paper

The mechanism of action and treatment of palytoxin poisoning

Palytoxin is one of the most potent coronary vasoconstrictors known, producing death within minutes by diminishing the supply of oxygen to the myocard…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Timfish]

Is every soft coral toxic?

Since palytoxin is actually made by a benthic dinoflaggelate and is consumed by higher organisms potentially anything from marine waters is toxic, not just soft corals.

 

[ripcord]

I don’t care for zoas at all, I do unfortunately have some palys that hitchhiked in on my live rock decades ago, so I just stay clear of them when working in main display tank, can’t be to careful with them!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Working in medical , this was a topic discussed and rarely ends up in a hospital visit. It can be fatal but depends on level of exposure and as with any toxicity exposure, prevention is key.
The high danger for PT is the ability to destroy cell structure and muscle tissue, called rhabdomyolysis but 2,4, 8 zoa are not going to get the job done. This toxin while can be contracted atmospherically is more of a danger through direct contact allowing the toxin to bind with your body cells.
Several signs of exposure and effect will be:
a metallic taste in your mouth
nausea
vomiting
muscle spasms
loss of muscle coordination or function
burning or tingling in your mouth and even throat
leakage from your skin
headache
muscle pain
kidney discomfort
fever
Joint Pain
shakes

Cooking live rock posed the highest risk and not many hospitals and trauma centers are aware of paly Toxins so educate yourself so you can educate medical staff if a hospital visit is ever warranted.
Prevention is a s simple as ventilating area when working with this coral, wear safety glasses, gloves (kind i use below and avoid touching your face and skin when working with this coral. Disinfect with bleach and water when done.

 

[freepizza80]

I get severe allergy attacks if I touch Zoa or Acro without gloves. In addition to that, if I am fragging acro I can get allergy attack by inhaling fumes. So I always use high quality gloves and nice face mask, the one for toxins.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Localized necrosis sounds more like a bacterial thing. Maybe a tiny cut that got something bacterial in it? Palytoxin is a vasoconstrictor, not a flesh-destroying toxin.

Lots of nasty bacteria in aquariums.

We had a local physician who would often identify necrotic wounds on his patients as “brown recluse bites”. Trouble is, that spider isn’t native to our region. I would get calls about these “spider bites”because i was curator of invertebrates. Luckily, he retired (grin).

Jay

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

I had made the executive decision when starting the hobby [recently too!] that I will never have them, not worth the risk. I want to keep the hobby easy and fun

 

[brandon429]

In my opinion what Jim endured comes from anything wet in a reef tank, finding the right immune acceptance time on the target, the right entry point/ several bad lucks lining up

that necrosis exists as a response to common biota any reef tank owner can encounter

*a notice to all classroom reef setups when they inevitably handle things or prepare microscope slides

sending this to my friend immediately.

 

[Piscans]

My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?

dont eat, boil, smoke, huff, squeeze, blend, or atomize them in any way and they will not kill you. touching them when they are in water is fine, wearing gloves is good for all corals, especially zoas

 

[Mark Bradley]

I have some palys that are known to be toxic but have never had any issues. I do wear protective Goggles when working on my tank. I would also wear gloves if I were to be doing any fragging or doing something that was likely to stress them - just in case. However, I’ve never had a bad experience.

 

[Timfish]

dont eat, boil, smoke, huff, squeeze, blend, or atomize them in any way and they will not kill you. touching them when they are in water is fine, wearing gloves is good for all corals, especially zoas

You left out rubbing zoa slime into cat scratches to super charge toxoplasmosis reactions.

 

[SunshineNinja]

There are people willing to take the risk and people who aren't. I regularly see people talk about how they moved a rock or they angered a zoa colony and then felt really sick after. By regularly I mean it's a couple times a year I see something on a forum or a facebook group. I'm personally not willing to risk it. IMO there are so many better looking corals out there that don't pose this risk. I also think too many people discount the risk. Saying "well only some Zoas have it" is ignorant. Unless you are evaluating the exact species or you are a marine biologist it's very difficult to know which ones have the palytoxin. And even then they have it in varying degrees. It's not bad until it is. So for me, it's a no.

 

[brandon429]

Tim

Have you seen the display nano tank at Austin Aqua dome pet shop

I was there last week

I wanted to take a picture of it as the most dangerous aquarium in reefing/in jest lol check it out someday

a biocube with about 900 protopalythoids heh rock on. its a very old nano, you'll see the age proof markers in person considering the brown palys simply reproduced all over that setup.

the fact the lfs employees aren't hospitalized with each water change, aerosol vectoring apparently not applying, adds to the nature of palytoxin tracing/it isn't harming anyone there. its the most protopalythoa per unit of volume I've seen in reefing.

 

[Tired]

Oh yeah, I've seen that tank. Whole back wall's covered. It look pretty nice, but boy does it also look like a clue that would be in the background of a "hey, guess how this person was murdered!" mystery novel.

 

[Steverd]

How do you even know which Zoas are toxic?
I've been fragging then for years with my bear hands with no issues.

 

[Tired]

You might want to enlist an animal other than a bear, bears aren't very dexterous animals.

Zoa toxicity knowledge is based on laboratory testing of various species. We can then look at those reports and say "well, this strain of zoas looks like X species, and X species is known to have very little palytoxin".

 

[waver]

They are dangerous. Motorcycles are also dangerous. If you act recklessly with either it can threaten your life up to death.

Handle with care, wear glasses when fragging, put on gloves - but on a day to day basis you probably wont have a problem

 

[Nickers]

Toxic coral spores likely poisoned SA family of seven

Cleaning household coral with a scrubbing brush is suspected of putting a South Australian family in hospital.

www.abc.net.au