Cannot Figure out whats wrong with SPS

[tomek77pl]

Tank info:

33 gallon long with 65 gallon sump. skimmer, macro algae and about 70 lbs of LR plus marine bio rocks. 48" t5 (ATI blue plus x 2, purple plus and coral plus)

livestock- Malarenous Wrasse, and yellow kole tang ( both fish were sold) and recently added ( labouts Wrasse, potters angel, lawnmower blenny, and mandarin)

Salinity- 1.026
Temp 78
PH 7.8-9
Alk 9 (lowering it to 8 ish slowly)
cal 440
Mag 1250( raising it slowly to 1350)
Nitrate 0-1
phospahte- don't test
potassium-

Tank is about a year old and for the whole time I have been battling super low nitrate, After I took offline my over sized skimmer and started running sca-301 skimmer, (started dosing potassium nitrate) sps colors came back but growth was still slow compared to my previous tanks. Recently I acquired a reef brite strip and attached it to my light making it a combo of ( ati blue plus x 2, reef brite and purple plus) three days later lost two frags which I thought due to high par bleaching took the light offline and purchased a dimmer running at 10% now. Fast forward a week, another one of my sps is loosing flesh, but not from the top, but from the side, and I noticed other colonies (not all with random spots with missing flesh. I assumed Flat worms but there is none. Rented a par meter to see if it was the lights (Apongee mq-510), and my par with original lights was at (400) surface, mid (220) bottom (100). With the reef brite on full blast I measured 50-80 par less on each level. Making me eliminate the original High par bleaching problem I thought I had. Today I went back to my original bulb layout and raised the canopy 4 inches. The rest of my sps did fade in color, while a couple of frags stayed the same.

My theories are:

Low nutrients and lowered par was enough to loose certain sps?

User error when using par meter? Blues at 25% read 40 par but whites at 25% read 80 par ( tested the meter on nano tank to compare.

Recently took out a stylo colony, which increased my alk from 8-9 in a three week period which I don't think would cause this. ( Don't think that this is the cause )

RO/DI was recently changed, and my clean water ran through a copper pipe ( used 5 gallons of it for ATO) before realizing and did about a 30% water change over the following 2 weeks.

Potassium Nitrate KNO3 is the problem? Used stump remover for 2 weeks then went to a more pure form from LOUDWOLF 99.8 % Pure. My potassium did not budge much, nitrates still stayed low and my dosing was not very consistent. ( Don't think that this is the cause )

What do you guys think? or what should I do?

I did add more fish, Which should Raise the nutrients. Might put skimmer on a 12 hr on and 12 off cycle.

 

[tomek77pl]

Here are some Images. So far, I have 6 bleached frags with no tissue.

The Bleached Frags Mother Colony is doing fine, you can see it in the middle of the Full Tank Shot.

 

[Ldballoon4]

Its not AEFW-
Corals may be starving in the zero NO3 environment OR Alk swing ( most likely) How do you dose ALK? Doser? by hand? Not sure by what you mean when you said,"and my clean water ran through a copper pipe".
You could also send in an ICP sample to know for next time. Sorry for the STN

 

[tomek77pl]

Its not AEFW-
Corals may be starving in the zero NO3 environment OR Alk swing ( most likely) How do you dose ALK? Doser? by hand? Not sure by what you mean when you said,"and my clean water ran through a copper pipe".
You could also send in an ICP sample to know for next time. Sorry for the STN

Kalk In ATO which did the job, Plus two doser for two part if needed( offline since Kalk can keep up). RO/DI water from storage tank, ran back through a copper 1/4" pipe into bucket for ato. Since the water is 2 tds, copper might have leached from pipe in to water? or that's what I'm thinking. IF an ALK swing, why would a colony be ok? but two frags from that colony bleached overnight?

 

[Ldballoon4]

No, dude . Do not use copper for anything in the tank. You need a large W.C with matched parameters and temp and dose:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/detox-100ml-triton.html

You are wiping out your tank with that set up slowly and steadily. Some corals are less sensitive to heavy metals than -others,not so much.

 

[tomek77pl]

No, dude . Do not use copper for anything in the tank. You need a large W.C with matched parameters and temp and dose:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/detox-100ml-triton.html

You are wiping out your tank with that set up slowly and steadily. Some corals are less sensitive to heavy metals than -others,not so much.

This was a one time thing for only 5 gallons. My RO/DI is connected with normal plastic tubing that comes with the unit and this is the only time my tank was exposed to copper.

 

[Ldballoon4]

Cu will continue to build up an reach a toxic-tipping level. You are correct on your assumption. Remove the copper pipe NOW. Get some fresh carbon in that tank ASAP.

 

[Ldballoon4]

This was a one time thing for only 5 gallons. My RO/DI is connected with normal plastic tubing that comes with the unit and this is the only time my tank was exposed to copper.

That' all it took, most likely. When you touch a Cu pipe you can smell the metal on your hands after handling it. in terms of reef tanks it's exponential.

 

[tomek77pl]

Cu will continue to build up an reach a toxic-tipping level. You are correct on your assumption. Remove the copper pipe NOW. Get some fresh carbon in that tank ASAP.

In our house, we have a 3 gallon ro/di storage tank. From there we have a line for drinking water/fridge with copper tubing and then I have a separate line (plastic) to DI then to a valve for fish tank use. Accidentally the wrong tap was used but only for 5 gallons. I don't think that's the cause, since it was a small amount, but will buy a copper test to confirm. No copper line is being used for any of the water except that one time.

 

[Ldballoon4]

If that is the case, ALK swing may be the case.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

My first thought is too many things at once. A perfect storm.

The par question is odd.
You say the reefbright lowered your par?

If you are processing no3 that quickly, I would remove some of the bio media.

I would not adjust the skimmer times. It will mess with your ph.

How high above the tank was the t5 fixture ? And the reefbright strip?

The one I metered packed a serious punch. About 400 + par at 12 in.


I don’t belive it was the copper from the pipes.

 

[tomek77pl]

My first thought is too many things at once. A perfect storm.

The par question is odd.
You say the reefbright lowered your par?

If you are processing no3 that quickly, I would remove some of the bio media.

I would not adjust the skimmer times. It will mess with your ph.

How high above the tank was the t5 fixture ? And the reefbright strip?

The one I metered packed a serious punch. About 400 + par at 12 in.


I don’t belive it was the copper from the pipes.

The reef brite was installed inside the fixture that replaced the ATI coral plus bulb which is more of a full spectrum. This gave me a more blue look maybe around 18-20k( ATI blue plus x 2, purple plus and reef brite ). Do you remember what kind of Reef Brite strip it was? Mine is the actinic one, reef brite at 7" above water, gives me 100 Par extra on surface, 2" under water drops to 60 par, 4" 28 par. The only thing that I can think of is that the par meter does not measure light in the 400nm range very well? after re measuring at all levels, my tank never had high par, most corals sit around 200 par which eliminates my high par theory. One thing that stumps me is the mother colony is fine, but the two frags form it lost flesh over night. Does bleaching occur from top to bottom or can it be random? So from What I can judge, is that the sudden change of light, and low nutrients combine cause the rapid loss. Here are the changes I made from yesterday, Started lowering Kalk dosage which dropped alk to 8.5 and remove Marine pure balls and block. If nitrates go up, I might remove some more LR.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hmm. That is weird. It’s been too long since I metered it unfortunately. But one thing to consider , although the overall par bump is only 50, it’s in a narrow NM band.
But why the momma is ok? Geez. I dunno.

Ime, bleaching happens like stn. It can start anywhere or all over. Wheather that’s an idnictor , I don’t know.
I one split an 8 in acro frag and one side lightened. Stayed that way too.

Is it bleaching ? Or an stn?

 

[tomek77pl]

Hmm. That is weird. It’s been too long since I metered it unfortunately. But one thing to consider , although the overall par bump is only 50, it’s in a narrow NM band.
But why the momma is ok? Geez. I dunno.

Ime, bleaching happens like stn. It can start anywhere or all over. Wheather that’s an idnictor , I don’t know.
I one split an 8 in acro frag and one side lightened. Stayed that way too.

Is it bleaching ? Or an stn?

They are STN, I guess my question is what would make SPS loose color and slowly get more pale? high exposure to UV?

 

[dankreef]

Im with the first guy I would never ever run tank water through a copper pipe. Go get some PVC easy and run some carbon and test it. That could be a futile mistake honestly i'm sorry to say. Copper will leach into your rocks and sand, you may continue to have problems for long time. Maybe not, but copper and reef is bad bad. Best of luck to you bud.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

They are STN, I guess my question is what would make SPS loose color and slowly get more pale? high exposure to UV?

Most often,(without personal observation) it’s low nutrients and high light. Then, it’s the mystery of a new aquarium and acros and some corals being sensitive to that.
Or also , expulsion of zooox , from a high dose of a a specific Nm of Light. All IMO , possibilities.

As far as copper goes, yea , maybe. To remove most of it , it’s as simple as running a gfo. But you do have to balance the Po4 to the addional stripping by feeding dosing or using less. And yes. Water changes with good water.

Led and t5 IMO are not going to give you enough Uv to be if a concern. Most MH with large reflectors didn’t have a glass in them for example.

I think I’m still going with some perfect storm , or rather , several storms. Nutints , now Light , inconsistent dosing , possible bad water (you’d really have to calculate how much copper is bound to rodi).

Kinda leading to what I call sickly corals. They were already trying to recover before getting sick again.

As to why it’s from the side ? That’s weird. I’d def mood at the flow there , make sure it’s not too direct , but it could also be it’s sickly and the higher flow (or lower) is helping the issue along.

 

[tomek77pl]

Most often,(without personal observation) it’s low nutrients and high light. Then, it’s the mystery of a new aquarium and acros and some corals being sensitive to that.
Or also , expulsion of zooox , from a high dose of a a specific Nm of Light. All IMO , possibilities.

As far as copper goes, yea , maybe. To remove most of it , it’s as simple as running a gfo. But you do have to balance the Po4 to the addional stripping by feeding dosing or using less. And yes. Water changes with good water.

Led and t5 IMO are not going to give you enough Uv to be if a concern. Most MH with large reflectors didn’t have a glass in them for example.

I think I’m still going with some perfect storm , or rather , several storms. Nutints , now Light , inconsistent dosing , possible bad water (you’d really have to calculate how much copper is bound to rodi).

Kinda leading to what I call sickly corals. They were already trying to recover before getting sick again.

As to why it’s from the side ? That’s weird. I’d def mood at the flow there , make sure it’s not too direct , but it could also be it’s sickly and the higher flow (or lower) is helping the issue along.

I do not think its the copper at all, all inverts,lps are doing great and it was only 5 gallons in 65 gallons total and it happened once. I will focus on increasing my nitrates by removing rock and macro algae. we will see how the corals do in the next week or two. At this point. There is not much I can do except make slow changes and let the tank do it's own thing.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I do not think its the copper at all, all inverts,lps are doing great and it was only 5 gallons in 65 gallons total and it happened once. I will focus on increasing my nitrates by removing rock and macro algae. we will see how the corals do in the next week or two. At this point. There is not much I can do except make slow changes and let the tank do it's own thing.

Yup. Pretty much.

I don’t think it was the copper either. Fwiw. Possibly a factor , but we’ll never know really.

 

[tripdad]

There is no way putting five gallons of water thru a copper tube, 1 time is going to leach enough copper to hurt you. It simply is not THAT reactive. Yes, long term is a no-no.

 

[madweazl]

I do not think its the copper at all, all inverts,lps are doing great and it was only 5 gallons in 65 gallons total and it happened once. I will focus on increasing my nitrates by removing rock and macro algae. we will see how the corals do in the next week or two. At this point. There is not much I can do except make slow changes and let the tank do it's own thing.

I don't know that I'd go about removing rock and macro algae. You're lowering the alkalinity right now and that has generally been accepted as desirable for lower nutrient tanks. For what it's worth, I've had 0 measurable (Salifert test kit) nitrates for months now but my alkalinity has been in the 7-8 dKh range. I noticed no difference between 0 nitrates and 5ppm for the month I dosed potassium nitrate in the form of Stump Remover. It's rarely a good idea to make multiple changes at once, especially when you aren't sure what the causal factor is so at this point, I think it wise to observe the corals as you lower the alkalinity and leave it at that unless things take a turn for the worse.

I also find the copper theory to be unlikely given the contact time and relatively small amount of water that contacted it.