Can't keep acros, what am I doing wrong?

[Ashish Patel]

My main issue is that I cannot figure out what the issue is, whether it's one issue or a combination of multiple issues. Of course it could just be tank maturity, but honestly I don't believe that.

I am having similar issues and can 100% confirm my issues are caused by lack of bio diversity maturity, and swinging nutrients (IMO dosing nitrates is not good for new tank started with dry rock).

1. Stick to frags that have been through hell and back. good examples are = Pink lemonade, paletta pink tip, red planet. These seem to overcome alk, nutrient, metal, and chemical spikes like champs. I' have a few small pieces of encrusted red planet stump growing out in the worst areas of my tank.

2. If a tank is too sterile (new), test your PO and nitrate regularly and adjust feeding, skimming, and lighting accordingly. Testing frequently allows you to better understand your feeding and nutrient export. First 6 months my nutrients where all over the place now they are stable week to week regardless of feeding and skimming.

3. Give it time or find some good LR that is covered in sponges and other animals that feed of SPS bacteria and slim... This is overlooked but I've yet to see a thriving SPS tank that was lack of sponge growth. It can surely be done but its much more difficult when your dealing with artificial food and artificial nutrient export (zeo, pellets, etc).

 

[Richards_reef]

He stated he has plenty of sponges

 

[mstockmaster]

Mostly just pineapple type and maybe a few others. But lots of microfauna on my rocks.

 

[Richards_reef]

I don't think your problem are with any parameter but maybe mag(an icp test will confirm this tho). Do you ever run carbon?

 

[mstockmaster]

Yeah, I honestly haven't run carbon until recently. Thinking that maybe chemical warfare was an issue. I threw a bag of chemi pure elite in last week.

 

[Richards_reef]

Good call.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I just re-read your original post. I had undetectable nitrates and brought the nitrates from undetectable to 3PPM in 3 days. Few SPS RTN immediately so the sudden spike in nutrients was the reason for this issue. In hindsight I should have brought it up to 3PPM over 1 months time but thought my system was starving for this. Also, I started the tank with chemi pure elite and this contains GFO. I've since started using the original chemi pure just for helping with color and possible polution.

How was your tank doing prior to dosing nitrates?
If nutrients are already low I'd replace it with regular carbon. - Chemi-pure elite is some powerful stuff!

 

[TexasReefer82]

Since all other corals including SPS do well for you I'd say that your water chemistry and lighting are perfectly adequate.

Acropora and Montipora are the two genus of Coral most prone to pests. Once your tank is infected with acropora eating flatworms, red bugs, or Montipora eating nudibranches they will easily spread to any new Coral added, even if that Coral is perfectly healthy upon addition.

I'd suggest that you dip all of your acro and Monti frags in a solution such as Bayer insecticide (0.5ml per 1 cup tank water) which should reveal if you have an infestation. The pests will at least jump off the Coral or just outright die... Either way they'll be visible.

 

[Gablami]

Your system is still pretty new, how much live rock is in your sump? I had a very similar situation on my system, added more live rock (started with 100 pounds of dry rock, then added 45 pounds of live rock in 139 gallon system after 7 months). Then dosed Brightwell Microbactor7 for 2 weeks to add additional bacteria. My coralline and Montipora took off as a result. Read Mike Paletta's article on ReefBuilders about his 18 month old Elos 160 and adding live rock.
https://reefbuilders.com/2017/07/08/revisiting-my-elos-tank-after-18-months/

THIS!!! (above)

When my tank was early, I couldn't get SPS to survive. I poured money into my tank, started full zeovit, left zeovit, started refugium, left refugium to ATS, switched lighting from led to t5 hybrid, went through 4 different salt mixes. All the while my parameters were stable and spot on. I spent hundreds of dollars on SPS frags and they all died. Fast forward a year, and all my sps are encrusting and growing and I'm surprised if a frag dies on me.

You seem like a well read, conscientious reefer. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Don't keep trying new things. Do like I did, just chill out and enjoy LPS, softies, birdsnest, etc for awhile, and every few months place a cheap tester frag in and see if it takes off. It will eventually. Your tank just needs some more "seasoning" and I can't explain why.

 

[ws6kid]

Probably not a nitrate spike that toasted them. Did you use potassium nitrate?

Have you tried a Triton test so you can compare the numbers they send back to what you are testing?

 

[Richards_reef]

You shouldn't have to dose nitrate if you feed every day, at least 5 days of the week. Just my opinion.

 

[Richards_reef]

How long has your tank been running? And how many fish are in it

 

[mstockmaster]

Probably not a nitrate spike that toasted them. Did you use potassium nitrate?

Have you tried a Triton test so you can compare the numbers they send back to what you are testing?

Hey, a local Cora member, good to see you here. No definitely not a nitrate spike. I'm sending samples to ATI tomorrow for icp testing. ( $10 cheaper than triton and they test your rodi as well.

 

[mstockmaster]

How long has your tank been running? And how many fish are in it

5 fish, since March but was seeded with base rock from a tank that had been established for 4 years.

 

[mstockmaster]

Since all other corals including SPS do well for you I'd say that your water chemistry and lighting are perfectly adequate.

Acropora and Montipora are the two genus of Coral most prone to pests. Once your tank is infected with acropora eating flatworms, red bugs, or Montipora eating nudibranches they will easily spread to any new Coral added, even if that Coral is perfectly healthy upon addition.

I'd suggest that you dip all of your acro and Monti frags in a solution such as Bayer insecticide (0.5ml per 1 cup tank water) which should reveal if you have an infestation. The pests will at least jump off the Coral or just outright die... Either way they'll be visible.

Bayer dip turned up nothing. No major pests under close inspection.

 

[mstockmaster]

THIS!!! (above)

When my tank was early, I couldn't get SPS to survive. I poured money into my tank, started full zeovit, left zeovit, started refugium, left refugium to ATS, switched lighting from led to t5 hybrid, went through 4 different salt mixes. All the while my parameters were stable and spot on. I spent hundreds of dollars on SPS frags and they all died. Fast forward a year, and all my sps are encrusting and growing and I'm surprised if a frag dies on me.

You seem like a well read, conscientious reefer. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Don't keep trying new things. Do like I did, just chill out and enjoy LPS, softies, birdsnest, etc for awhile, and every few months place a cheap tester frag in and see if it takes off. It will eventually. Your tank just needs some more "seasoning" and I can't explain why.

You're probably right. I got into this hobby partially because it requires patience which is honestly something I lack. If all the tests turn up no major issues then this is likely the cause.

 

[Richards_reef]

Honestly if it's not pests, I personally feel it's magnesium, or your lights, or possibly too big of water changes too far apart, or maybe the salt your using(very doubtful). Your tank is old enough, there is enough micro fauna, there is enough flow, all other parameters seem to check out(before getting an icp test done).

 

[leicaguy]

I use Triton core 7, large refugium, two radion G4pro, Large Deltec skimmer, feed acropower reef roids KZ coral vitalizer and phytofeast in a 125 Gallon "nano" tank, my acro are growing like weeds, ULNS BUT very stable parameters agree magnesium is essential I use high flow 10X tank volume through sump and 2 Vortech 40 using WW corals flow suggestions in the radion coral lab booklet. I use tropic marine pro salt
I place the coral and forget them don't move around at all
I have used almost every method and Triton is the most successful followed by Red Sea ULNS recipe

 

[Ashish Patel]

Are all acros dying or just some?
Nothing really sticks out other than perhaps too much lighting or perhaps taking longer to acclimate corals to your lighting. If your base rock is 4 years its as good if not better than newly shipped LR. Take your time rule out everything one by one and after few month get some tester frags and see how they do. Best of luck

 

[TexasReefer82]

I may have to correct myself... Flatworms would be visible in the dip (and leave behind telltale bite marks), Montipora nudis also, but red bugs are really small and may not be visible in the dip solution without some optics.

I'm assuming that you left the frags in the dip for ~15 minutes... Long enough to kill them or make them jump off.

Keep an eye on the acropora frags in the next couple days/nights. If they show improved polyp extension in the days after the dip then that's indicative that the dip killed something that was bothering them... A good sign that you probably have red bugs.

I focus on the red bugs because after looking closely at the photos you included in the first post of this thread, they appear to show the exact symptoms of red bug infection: poor polyp extension, pale color, zero growth, tissue recession.

If you have red bugs you can treat your entire tank with a product called Dr G's Coral Dip solution. The active ingredient is milbemycin oxime, same as interceptor The label says it's a Coral Dip and not for use in the tank... I know I know... Ignore that. Dose the tank at 1mL/Gallon of actual tank volume. Three doses, each one week apart, remove GAC, and turn the air off in your skimmer but leave it on so it kills red bugs in there too. Fair warning: it will kill all crustaceans in your tank, so remove them to a separate tank before treatment.