Can't keep acros, what am I doing wrong?

[mstockmaster]

I use Triton core 7, large refugium, two radion G4pro, Large Deltec skimmer, feed acropower reef roids KZ coral vitalizer and phytofeast in a 125 Gallon "nano" tank, my acro are growing like weeds, ULNS BUT very stable parameters agree magnesium is essential I use high flow 10X tank volume through sump and 2 Vortech 40 using WW corals flow suggestions in the radion coral lab booklet. I use tropic marine pro salt
I place the coral and forget them don't move around at all
I have used almost every method and Triton is the most successful followed by Red Sea ULNS recipe

That's not a nano or even a "nano". Honestly you probably have about as much money in your skimmer as I do in my tank. But I'm glad to hear it's going well for you. Stability is key.

 

[Richards_reef]

Before you medicate your tank make sure it's red bugs first.

 

[mstockmaster]

I may have to correct myself... Flatworms would be visible in the dip (and leave behind telltale bite marks), Montipora nudis also, but red bugs are really small and may not be visible in the dip solution without some optics.

I'm assuming that you left the frags in the dip for ~15 minutes... Long enough to kill them or make them jump off.

Keep an eye on the acropora frags in the next couple days/nights. If they show improved polyp extension in the days after the dip then that's indicative that the dip killed something that was bothering them... A good sign that you probably have red bugs.

I focus on the red bugs because after looking closely at the photos you included in the first post of this thread, they appear to show the exact symptoms of red bug infection: poor polyp extension, pale color, zero growth, tissue recession.

If you have red bugs you can treat your entire tank with a product called Dr G's Coral Dip solution. The active ingredient is milbemycin oxime, same as interceptor The label says it's a Coral Dip and not for use in the tank... I know I know... Ignore that. Dose the tank at 1mL/Gallon of actual tank volume. Three doses, each one week apart, remove GAC, and turn the air off in your skimmer but leave it on so it kills red bugs in there too. Fair warning: it will kill all crustaceans in your tank, so remove them to a separate tank before treatment.

Thanks for the info. I took a couple of corals into my local reef store. We did the dip there and examined under a loupe. Saw some flatworms but didn't appear to be acro eating kind... mostly grazing on areas where the tissue was already dead. So if I had aefw I think that the corals would be dying off faster than they are.

 

[Richards_reef]

Hey so I read threw the posts again and it just clicked that you are running your salinity at 1.027.before you do anything else take the next 2 weeks and slowly drop that to 1.025. That salinity is a bit much.

 

[TexasReefer82]

You'd know if they were the AEFW, they leave characteristic bite marks that the shop owner would surely have recognized. Also, they come off infected corals in hordes and they're larger than you'd imagine. Creepy and disgusting to be honest! Haha

Again, watch those frags that you dipped over the next few days for any signs of improvement.

Acropora really aren't that hard to keep, but they are prone to pests. Keep us posted!

 

[PopaSmurph]

Salinity is at 1.027 or so, measured by refractometer.

When was the last time you calibrated your refractometer? They make calibration fluid
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aqua-craft-refractometer-calibration-fluid.html
and for the price I calibrate before every use

 

[mstockmaster]

Was calibrated against lfs refractometer a couple weeks ago

 

[mstockmaster]

Hey so I read threw the posts again and it just clicked that you are running your salinity at 1.027.before you do anything else take the next 2 weeks and slowly drop that to 1.025. That salinity is a bit much.

Yeah, I agree it's a bit high. I typically try to run at 1.026. I've been making water change salinity a bit lower to bring it back down.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Alot of helpful advice here but don't go trying to change everything fast bc not all advice is good! lol

 

[mstockmaster]

I think that this is a great example of what makes this hobby so great yet still so frustrating. I can list everything that I can possibly measure that would indicate success yet its still possible that there are twenty more possibilities, some completely unquantifiable, that could be preventing it. It hurts my brain and I love it.

 

[Richards_reef]

That is very true. The reason we are addicted reefers lol. The worse part is how slow you have to be with it, but that is also the part that keeps me hooked over all these years.

 

[Richards_reef]

Double post...

 

[lolmatt]

I just read through this post as I'm having a very very similar issue right now. I think that it ultimately comes down to stability and biodiversity as suggested by a couple others - I have had 2 acros STN in the past few months, and most of my montis/acros look pretty poor in terms of polyp extension and growth, though they are not dying. Other sps (birdsnest, psammocora, stylo, etc) all have great PE and are growing slowly. I recently saw a drop in Alk/calc usage which caused Alk to rise to ~9.5 within about a week. Undetectable nitrates and phosphates, but I'm feeding 2-3x per day (pellet and/or frozen) and reef roids daily. My only nutrient export is chaeto. I'm currently working on the following:
1. Slowly lowering alk to ~7.5-8.0 over the course of the next couple weeks (I use kalkwasser in my ato, so I'm just putting less until gets to 8.0, then I'll turn off ATO for a day or two and calculate my usage).
2. Check for red bugs - right now my spongodes is looking much better (hints of brown polyps during the day...seems to be more pronounced each day but hard to say), but if things haven't improved at all in another week or two I plan to yank something and get some bayer to check for redbugs with a loupe.
3. Trim back the chaeto significantly. I tossed roughly a full gallon-sized baggie this weekend.
4. If all of this fails, I'll probably try to get my mag down. Mine has always been high (reef crystals mixes at over 1600 when getting salinity to 1.026), I've not had to dose it yet, and it sits over 1500. I will likely do water changes half as often to accomplish this.

Following along nonetheless - I'm super interested in seeing what you find is causing your problems.

 

[mstockmaster]

Yeah, your issues sound like mine. I'm thinking that maybe my next few water changes will be done with regular io instead of rc. My mag tested super high the other day, and while I know that this isn't the cause of my problems I know it isn't helping me.

I also had chaeto when I first started the tank but it never really grew and mostly died off. I ended up tossing the remainder that I had a few months ago.

 

[mstockmaster]

Likewise, just like you all other sps is doing just fine.

 

[mstockmaster]

Not great pictures but you get the idea

 

[lolmatt]

Yeah, PE on my stylo looks about the same as yours, big and fluffy, and psammocora looks nearly identical too. Since bumping my feeding and adding the reef roids, have not seen any increase in nitrate/phosphate. I plan to add more fish (5 in a 40g right now) to increase the nutrients in my tank, but that's slow going as I QT them one-at-a-time. Tank is about 6 months old. I did, however, start with live rock from a friend-of-a-friend. How long until you get your ICP back, early next week perhaps?

 

[mstockmaster]

We literally have the same tank. 2-3 weeks turnaround

 

[lolmatt]

Indeed we do (I overlooked that part of your OP). I've got a 29g sump though

 

[tdileo]

Wish I was able to tell you, but I wish you the best of luck with acros! I’m not sure why they won’t live for you. I can’t read through the whole thread, but my suggestion is you keep alkalinity stable (most important aspect of acro keeping in my limited experience) and buy the cheapest healthy frag you can, especially if it’s aquacultured. I mean it. Usually the acros like green slimers are some of the cheapest and most hardy. There are so many subspecies!
For example an A. yongei is much more hardy than A. millepora or A. tenuis.
I also suggest you dip all acros and montis, IMO they are the most important coral to dip because of all the pests, but make sure you are careful if you dip certain deepwater acro species as they tend to not respond well.
Once again I wish you the best of luck with this beautiful yet delicate genus.