Can't keep SPS
- Thread starter qhduong
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ReefBeta
Valuable Member
Don't see you following up on light. But too low of light definitive can cause STN. I did that.
About 2 years ago when I restart my 42 gallons, I tried out the 4 months cycle, and only running the lights at 20% when I start adding acros. Those are 2 Radion XR15 over 30" long tank. The acros are slowly dying out/STN over couple weeks. When I realize my light was too low (I tested PAR, it was around 100 PAR max, that par is good enough for LPS), I immediately raise the light to 60% and the STN literally stopped right away.
This is the frag that stopped mid STN after light increase. You can see the exposed skeleton at the base.
About 2 years ago when I restart my 42 gallons, I tried out the 4 months cycle, and only running the lights at 20% when I start adding acros. Those are 2 Radion XR15 over 30" long tank. The acros are slowly dying out/STN over couple weeks. When I realize my light was too low (I tested PAR, it was around 100 PAR max, that par is good enough for LPS), I immediately raise the light to 60% and the STN literally stopped right away.
This is the frag that stopped mid STN after light increase. You can see the exposed skeleton at the base.
ReefBeta
Valuable Member
If it's dino, you will be able to blow it off with a baster. If algae, you won't be able to blow it away.
I'm leaning towards what some of the others have mentioned with ICP tests possibly revealing an unknown (i.e. heavy metals) that may be playing a role in your ability to maintain the health of the SPS frags.
Do you mix your own water or do you buy it from LFS? Same with top-off water, what is the source? Lastly, have you checked any magnets or other potential sources of metal such as screws or hooks that may be showing rust? (sorry if previously answered, trying to get the whole picture here).
Do you mix your own water or do you buy it from LFS? Same with top-off water, what is the source? Lastly, have you checked any magnets or other potential sources of metal such as screws or hooks that may be showing rust? (sorry if previously answered, trying to get the whole picture here).
Yeah icp is ordered. I only have 2 gyres that has magnets. Make my own rodi, 0 tds and hw marine salt. Right now I'm thinking it's something in the water... I guess few more days for the icp result will tell!
Ok ICP analysis came in. Looks like the red flags are high Magnesium and Calcium. Also some trace elements are low or not measurable. Should I do a water change and dose trace elements? I have Tropic Marin Trace A and K.
I can think of 2 things:
1. I added Brightwell Xport Bricks about a month before the ICP was sent in. My SPS issues happened before this though so I'm not sure if it's from this.
2. My lid is a Red Sea DIY lid. Sometime this gets dropped/dipped in the water. I'm not sure if the frame is leaching anything into the water.
Would Aluminum be a more likely cause for my issues rather than low trace (eg Iodine)?
92Miata
Valuable Member
Agree. I literally put acropora in my tank the week I set it up. BioSpira day 1, fish day 2, corals by the end of the week.
The problem with dry rock is keeping algae off it, corals do fine.
OP - before you spend any more money, post a full tank shot. You're chasing ghosts.
melanotaenia
Well-Known Member
Dry rock will always make things difficult no matter how seasoned a reefer you are. A lot of tanks that do well with SPS just need time to settle in. After a year they do much better in general. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule.
Yes sorry I should have done this. Just took these 5 minutes ago. See my SPS continue dying... I've tested cal/alk daily and they've been stable. Phos and nitrate above 0 with Hanna and Red Sea.
A friend gave me a bunch of orange digi that I placed in various locations. They are showing signs of stress in all places. The green digi up top is doing worst, with algae growing on tips. My zoas are growing... The torch and rbta seems happy.
IslandLifeReef
Valuable Member
I’ll say again, rent a PAR meter. Your SPS look like mine use to look before I added light. Though your ICP test had a few parameters that were a little out of range, there wasn’t anything there that should be an issue. The last thing that is unknown is your PAR levels.Yes sorry I should have done this. Just took these 5 minutes ago. See my SPS continue dying... I've tested cal/alk daily and they've been stable. Phos and nitrate above 0 with Hanna and Red Sea.
92Miata
Valuable Member
How often do you scrape your glass? How long does it take for film algae to come back?
I see two small tangs, two clowns, a firefish, a sixline, and a damsel. You've got almost the same fish as I have in my 35 gallons of water. How often and how much do you feed?
I ask, because my experience with dry rock is that at this stage - its very difficult to get enough food/etc to sps corals without also growing algae - they have similar requirements. And I see very little green algae in your tank. (and nothing on your glass).
Those corals and that tank say not enough food to me.
Its important to remember that your testing is measuring residual levels of phosphate and nitrate - including some forms that are difficult for corals to use. And that corals don't make much use of nitrate - they much prefer ammonia - which comes from fish and food. Once the bacteria get ahold of it - its less useful.
What you really need to be concerned about is food/nutrient/etc availability.
So when someone tells you that .06 is fine for phosphate, or 5 ppm nitrate - it absolutely may be for them - and not be for you.
Back in August I killed every single montipora in my tank with some phosguard. Readings never went below .04 - but they looked exactly like yours - thinning flesh, and just basically wasting away, followed by algae invasion on the tips/exposed skeleton. Acros paled out a little but survived. I haven't run any phosphate media since - and have been rocking .15 phosphate. And I have some hair algae, but the SPS are doing great.
(Don't let people rag you about acclimating - I've got a bunch of hammers, candycanes and a green slimer that literally sat in a bucket outside exposed to 60 degree air - not under water - for 12 hours before making it to my tank. You're not killing your corals by not dripping them long enough)
I see two small tangs, two clowns, a firefish, a sixline, and a damsel. You've got almost the same fish as I have in my 35 gallons of water. How often and how much do you feed?
I ask, because my experience with dry rock is that at this stage - its very difficult to get enough food/etc to sps corals without also growing algae - they have similar requirements. And I see very little green algae in your tank. (and nothing on your glass).
Those corals and that tank say not enough food to me.
Its important to remember that your testing is measuring residual levels of phosphate and nitrate - including some forms that are difficult for corals to use. And that corals don't make much use of nitrate - they much prefer ammonia - which comes from fish and food. Once the bacteria get ahold of it - its less useful.
What you really need to be concerned about is food/nutrient/etc availability.
So when someone tells you that .06 is fine for phosphate, or 5 ppm nitrate - it absolutely may be for them - and not be for you.
Back in August I killed every single montipora in my tank with some phosguard. Readings never went below .04 - but they looked exactly like yours - thinning flesh, and just basically wasting away, followed by algae invasion on the tips/exposed skeleton. Acros paled out a little but survived. I haven't run any phosphate media since - and have been rocking .15 phosphate. And I have some hair algae, but the SPS are doing great.
(Don't let people rag you about acclimating - I've got a bunch of hammers, candycanes and a green slimer that literally sat in a bucket outside exposed to 60 degree air - not under water - for 12 hours before making it to my tank. You're not killing your corals by not dripping them long enough)
@IslandLifeReef I'll rent that PAR meter this weekend
@92Miata I feed TDO pellets twice a day. Sometime I throw in a little masstick in there and Hikari seaweed pellets. I clean the glass every 2-3 days. I had a lot of green algae, but they went to the fuge since that was added. My back glass has a lot of algae, the snails are eating those up. The only thing I don't do is feed frozen food. Last time I tried, my fish don't really like it. Maybe they've gotten used to pellets...
Also I should add, every time I try adding CoralAmino or Reef Roids... dino start showing up so I'm afraid to add those again.
Ok PAR meter is out until Monday, so I'll pick that up on Monday to do some PAR measurements. My digis still has color and polyps out, but the skin has some white fluffy flakes on them, not sure if it's losing skin. I see my tort have polyp retraction, and MS showing. The growth tips now has some algae covering it. Anyone have any other ideas while I'm waiting on the PAR meter? Everything else is stable...
That you are battling some LC Amphidinium suggests all is not quite stable yet. When the biome is nutrient and bacteria stable, these edge competitors fade away. They are replaced by bacterial film, film algae, diatoms, and coralline. Keep your basics all stable and allow some time for these "good" competitors to outcompete.
