Cant keep up Alkalinity

[Kirschy17]

Hey guys, i use Aquaforest components 1 2 3 with tropic marine pro reef salt and i cant keep up my alkalinity in desired ranges.

I cant keep my alkalinity at 7+ dosing 75ml of each component currently for my 65g lps dominated mixed reef. Afaik this is the recommended dose for a tank of that size. If i increase dosage further i cant efford the product. Is it unrealistic to call 50$ every ~1,5 months to expensive? Am i doing something wrong? Advice on what to dose otherwise? Help would be highly appreciated. Im reefing on a budget and i would still like to maintain my tank parameters with a dosingpump.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Hey guys, i use Aquaforest components 1 2 3 with tropic marine pro reef salt and i cant keep up my alkalinity in desired ranges.

I cant keep my alkalinity at 7+ dosing 75ml of each component currently for my 65g lps dominated mixed reef. Afaik this is the recommended dose for a tank of that size. If i increase dosage further i cant efford the product. Is it unrealistic to call 50$ every ~1,5 months to expensive? Am i doing something wrong? Advice on what to dose otherwise? Help would be highly appreciated. Im reefing on a budget and i would still like to maintain my tank parameters with a dosingpump.

That seems pretty high dose to me. I think many are going to need a picture of the tank to gauge the amount of coral to know for sure if this is high or low. You could always add kalc to auto top off system. Increase water change schedule or amounts, change to salts with higher dk like reef crystals. Much as I hate IO salts reef crystals do give very good dk for cost.

Ultimately you have two options long term assuming everything is correct.. reduce lighting period and intensity slightly reducing consumption and saving some dosing costs letting you save up for a reactor which is way more cost effective long term. Buy 75ml for lps in that size tank is way more then I’d expect. Are you dosing dk at night and cal during day?

 

[Kirschy17]

That seems pretty high dose to me. I think many are going to need a picture of the tank to gauge the amount of coral to know for sure if this is high or low. You could always add kalc to auto top off system. Increase water change schedule or amounts, change to salts with higher dk like reef crystals. Much as I hate IO salts reef crystals do give very good dk for cost.

Ultimately you have two options long term assuming everything is correct.. reduce lighting period and intensity slightly reducing consumption and saving some dosing costs letting you save up for a reactor which is way more cost effective long term. Buy 75ml for lps in that size tank is way more then I’d expect. Are you dosing dk at night and cal during day?

Thats exactly what i was thinking. The stock is low in terms of kh consumption. Ill add a picture. Its gonna be an older one but its in the ballpark. I heard bad things about adding kalk to my ato. Its even in my tunze description to not do so...

Do you think the aqua forest might be a bad product to use with the low kh tropic marine?

 

[W1ngz]

Are you buying the 123+ liquid jugs?
It costs about 1/3 of the price to mix your own.

 

[Kirschy17]

Are you buying the 123+ liquid jugs?
It costs about 1/3 of the price to mix your own.

Yes i do and i had no idea about this! Thanks a lot!

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Thats exactly what i was thinking. The stock is low in terms of kh consumption. Ill add a picture. Its gonna be an older one but its in the ballpark. I heard bad things about adding kalk to my ato. Its even in my tunze description to not do so...

Do you think the aqua forest might be a bad product to use with the low kh tropic marine?

This salts are amazing.. they are super clean and balanced. That said they are lower dk then some alternatives like some Red Sea variations and reef crystals. My issue with IO is inconsistency between beaches is sometimes extreme and dk 10 with 380-400 cal is not ideal imop the cal should be higher for that alk.

From recent BRS testing all salts cost the same long term so use which ever best suits what you need. If you need more dk to reduce dosing costs then that’s a route I’d look at.

One thing you didn’t answer though is how are you dosing. There has to be some time between the cal and alk entering the system. It also needs to enter in a high flow area to disperse as quickly as possible. The modern way of dosing 2 part is to dose alk at night cause it raises PH short term and helps stabilize from nightly swings and then dose cal during day when lighting is on. The amount your dosing on that setup is crazy and I’d venture to say you’re having precipitation issues and not getting the value of what you’re actually putting in.

 

[W1ngz]

With what you save you can buy a simple kitchen scale, a magnetic stirrer and a student grade 2000ml erlenmeyer flask off Amazon, then you won't even have to bother with the mixing part.

Just remember if you put in 2L of water to double the quantities that they say in the video.
This was my kitchen counter last weekend for about an hour.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Yes i do and i had no idea about this! Thanks a lot!

Another issue with using licquids is if you read the directions for all of them they tell you to shake it before use.. if your dosing from the bottle with a pump you’re not doing this and it’s settling and depending on the makeup certain parts may settle at the top and others at the bottom. Do you could be dosing 50% of alk for first half of a jug then 200% for second half..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How much are you dosing in dKH per day? Even a soft coral tank with coralline algae alone can consume 2 dKH per day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Another issue with using licquids is if you read the directions for all of them they tell you to shake it before use.. if your dosing from the bottle with a pump you’re not doing this and it’s settling and depending on the makeup certain parts may settle at the top and others at the bottom. Do you could be dosing 50% of alk for first half of a jug then 200% for second half..

These sorts of chemicals do not rise or settle when dissolved, unless solids are precipitating.Shaking is not needed for a two part, unless it is so poorly designed that a lot of solids have precipitated.

 

[W1ngz]

How much are you dosing in dKH per day? Even a soft coral tank with coralline algae alone can consume 2 dKH per day.

75ml of Aquaforest component 2+ in a 65 gal tank works out to .8 dkh per day.
Aquaforest chemistry calculator

I use the same stuff, and 75ml doesn't sound like a lot. It's made far enough below the saturation point to avoid clogging the dosing lines.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

These sorts of chemicals do not rise or settle when dissolved, unless solids are precipitating.Shaking is not needed for a two part, unless it is so poorly designed that a lot of solids have precipitated.

I can’t have a legit discussion on this especially not with you lol..you know more in your pinky about this then I do total, but all or most liquid 2 parts all tell you to shake them before every use.. idk the reasoning but it’s there direct from the manufactured instructions... I’m good at doing as I’m told lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

0.8 dKH per day is not much. I’d just dose more if you want the average alk to be higher.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I can’t have a legit discussion on this especially not with you lol..you know more in your pinky about this then I do total, but all or most liquid 2 parts all tell you to shake them before every use.. idk the reasoning but it’s there direct from the manufactured instructions... I’m good at doing as I’m told lol

Lol

I don’t doubt they may say it, but it is not typically needed for calcium or alkalinity solutions and a great many people dose perfectly well with dosing pumps and no stirring.

 

[Mykawl]

Following

 

[Kirschy17]

This salts are amazing.. they are super clean and balanced. That said they are lower dk then some alternatives like some Red Sea variations and reef crystals. My issue with IO is inconsistency between beaches is sometimes extreme and dk 10 with 380-400 cal is not ideal imop the cal should be higher for that alk.

From recent BRS testing all salts cost the same long term so use which ever best suits what you need. If you need more dk to reduce dosing costs then that’s a route I’d look at.

One thing you didn’t answer though is how are you dosing. There has to be some time between the cal and alk entering the system. It also needs to enter in a high flow area to disperse as quickly as possible. The modern way of dosing 2 part is to dose alk at night cause it raises PH short term and helps stabilize from nightly swings and then dose cal during day when lighting is on. The amount your dosing on that setup is crazy and I’d venture to say you’re having precipitation issues and not getting the value of what you’re actually putting in.

I dose 3 times a day for every of the 3 components. Might sound dumb but i know that you shouldnt dose at the same time so i just split the doses over the day so its 9 doses with at least an hour between the components. Its dosed with a jebao dosing pump.

I started on a low dose and increased steadily.

 

[Kirschy17]

Another issue with using licquids is if you read the directions for all of them they tell you to shake it before use.. if your dosing from the bottle with a pump you’re not doing this and it’s settling and depending on the makeup certain parts may settle at the top and others at the bottom. Do you could be dosing 50% of alk for first half of a jug then 200% for second half..

I use water bottles as reservouires so everything gets stirred up a bit when i refill them.

 

[Kirschy17]

How much are you dosing in dKH per day? Even a soft coral tank with coralline algae alone can consume 2 dKH per day.

0.8 dKH per day is not much. I’d just dose more if you want the average alk to be higher.

before i had the pumps i was dosing dry bio calcium and i needed about 1,5 dkh per week. Ill try increasing my dose but the tank is still fairly young at 1,5 years and coraline algae aswell as sps growth still is kinda slow id say.

I can see that the dose might still be too low tough...

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

I dose 3 times a day for every of the 3 components. Might sound dumb but i know that you shouldnt dose at the same time so i just split the doses over the day so its 9 doses with at least an hour between the components. Its dosed with a jebao dosing pump.

I started on a low dose and increased steadily.

I figured you knew this that why I didn’t jump to this from the start but later was questioning so.. best to dose all alk after lights out on display spread dosing for entire period and this will actually help keep PH stable.

Cal then is doses opposite while lights are on..

I’m not familiar with this specific 3 part break up but normally the third dosing is magnesium and some trace elements. I think I this can be done 24/7 around the clock long as there is a 30min window between alk and cal schedules. That’s just my take. Randy is truley a wizard when it comes to this type of stuff though and he’s always pushing the limits of current antidotal ideas and moving the hobby forward. 9/10x is take what he says as 100% fact.

 

[Kirschy17]

With what you save you can buy a simple kitchen scale, a magnetic stirrer and a student grade 2000ml erlenmeyer flask off Amazon, then you won't even have to bother with the mixing part.

Just remember if you put in 2L of water to double the quantities that they say in the video.
This was my kitchen counter last weekend for about an hour.

I will defenitely look into mixing on my own. Is the flask and stirrer necessary or would it be sufficient to stirr thoroughly by hand?