Cant stop Alk/Ca from dropping

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you.

Is there a normal or an acceptable of amount of alkalinity loss between water changes or should the kalk hold it steady if you are dosing the right amount to keep the calcium where you want it?
Is there a normal or acceptable swing in between the ATO top offs?

I took over this tank for my son in August, when he went off to college. This was the exact time of the ULNS problem. Thanks to Diesel, Ben V., who guided me out of the hole my tank was in.

Between water changes?

The limewater and B-ionic should keep it steady between water changes. If the tank is 8 dKH and the new water is 11 dKH, a 10% water change will only boost alk by 0.3 dKH, which is fine. That may be a reason to do more smaller water changes than one big one, however.

Most people using limewater in an ATO don't have any issue with how much the alk changes between triggering events of the ATO.
Do you have a sense of how much water is added each time?

 

[Perculap]

I'm following along and this is great info. My tank isn't young, but recently switched to acro dominated, pretty much all frags though. I was dosing 20ml of alk a day and only 10ml of calcium. I wasn't sure if my corals and coraline were actually using up the alk. I didn't think it was possible since they are so small, but apparently it is!

 

[malira]

Between water changes?

The limewater and B-ionic should keep it steady between water changes. If the tank is 8 dKH and the new water is 11 dKH, a 10% water change will only boost alk by 0.3 dKH, which is fine. That may be a reason to do more smaller water changes than one big one, however.

Most people using limewater in an ATO don't have any issue with how much the alk changes between triggering events of the ATO.
Do you have a sense of how much water is added each time?

I am currently changing 9 to 10 gallons every 2 days. I have a cyno problem (another thread) that I'm trying to get past.

I am currently losing just over 1 gallon a day in evaporation but I don't know the amount it takes to trigger the ATO.

I will increase the Kalk in my ATO to 2 tsp per gallon and see how that goes. Thank you for you time.

 

[clownsrcool]

Well as if I wasn't stumped enough I tested just now with a brand new reagent for my Alk checker and got a reading of 13.216 dkh. That seems to make more sense to me! I want to believe I had a bad batch of test reagent but prior to my levels slowly dropping I was testing pretty consistently in the 8.5 range. Then seemed like overnight it started dropping and wouldn't stop. Has anyone experienced that before with a test kit?

Now I don't know if I can't trust the hanna checkers. I can't get a reliable rest from Red Sea. Looks like I'll buy a few others and rest them out.

 

[jason2459]

Since the range in differences are quite different I would get a cheap API Alk test kit to get a quick sanity check.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

FYI to everyone.

Once you get your doser dialed in and your parameters are stable, do not fall asleep on it. Your tank can and may get a growth-boom which will cause your levels to deplete. I always check my water and am currently going through another spurt. So I am going from 30ml per day and now I am at 50ml for Alk. Ca. I was at 42ml per day and now going back up to 47ml per day.

It never ends.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well as if I wasn't stumped enough I tested just now with a brand new reagent for my Alk checker and got a reading of 13.216 dkh. That seems to make more sense to me! I want to believe I had a bad batch of test reagent but prior to my levels slowly dropping I was testing pretty consistently in the 8.5 range. Then seemed like overnight it started dropping and wouldn't stop. Has anyone experienced that before with a test kit?

Now I don't know if I can't trust the hanna checkers. I can't get a reliable rest from Red Sea. Looks like I'll buy a few others and rest them out.

A fair number of people have had issues with the Hanna alkalinity checker.

 

[acromike]

Hello
I am having a similar issue. I am using the triton method. My magnesium is like 1900 , calcium is 550 and my alk is running in the 6 to 7 range

I have been dealing with this issue for a few weeks. Amazingly, everything looks really good
I have my doser up to 300 ml of each following triton instruction

I am tempted to reduce the calcium and magnesium by half and leave the alkalinity at 300 ml per day.


So here is a question regardless if you use triton or another two part system. Does it make sense to reduce the calcium and magnesium dosing in an effort to help increase the alkalinity?

 

[007Bond]

That calculator gives exactly what I discussed above. It should definitely not be used as recommended set of values.

For example, if calcium is at 500 ppm (which is OK), the "balanced" alkalinity value is almost 20 dKH (by the calculator), but alkalinity should not be kept that high.

That is interesting,...I didn't know that the calculator is misleading in what it describes as balanced.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That is interesting,...I didn't know that the calculator is misleading in what it describes as balanced.

It is misleading if you use it as a recommendation for levels, which it definitely is not. It has a technical meaning.

Here's a cut and paste from a previous post of mine:

There is only one reasonable definition of balanced (IMO), and it should not be taken to mean a desirable target level.

That definition is taking the NSW levels of calcium and alkalinity (about 7 dKH and 420 ppm calcium) and adding or subtracting calcium and alkalinity in the same ratio present in calcium carbonate. These, for example, are balanced in that sense:

5 dKH 406 ppm
6 dKH 413 ppm
7 dKH 420 ppm
8 dKH 427 ppm
9 dKH 434 ppm
10 dKH 441 ppm

etc.

The reason these are "balanced" is because one could allow corals or abiotic calcification to bring any of the higher ones back to NSW levels, and one could use any "balanced" calcium and alkalinity addition method to raise them (a CaCO3/CO2 reactors, limewater/kalklwasser, or a two part systems).

As to desirable target levels, I do not think the optimal calcium level, for example, necessarily rises just because the alkalinity rises. In fact, reefs are fairly insensitive to the calcium level as long as it is not below about 380 ppm. So 400, 420, 450, 500 ppm are all fine.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hello
I am having a similar issue. I am using the triton method. My magnesium is like 1900 , calcium is 550 and my alk is running in the 6 to 7 range

I have been dealing with this issue for a few weeks. Amazingly, everything looks really good
I have my doser up to 300 ml of each following triton instruction

I am tempted to reduce the calcium and magnesium by half and leave the alkalinity at 300 ml per day.


So here is a question regardless if you use triton or another two part system. Does it make sense to reduce the calcium and magnesium dosing in an effort to help increase the alkalinity?

If the magnesium really is 1900 ppm, you should definitely stop dosing more magnesium.

Calcium is OK there, but it would also be OK to let it decline.

Neither of them dropping will have all that much much impact on alkalinity. If you want alk higher, I'd add more and not rely on decreased demand to increase it.

 

[007Bond]

It is misleading if you use it as a recommendation for levels, which it definitely is not. It has a technical meaning.

Here's a cut and paste from a previous post of mine:

Thanks Randy,.... made a printout for my fishroom wall when I read that post.---Rick

 

[Larry L]

Thanks Randy,.... made a printout for my fishroom wall when I read that post.---Rick

I rely heavily on another of Randy's articles: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

I shoot for staying somewhere in the red square in the middle of Figure 1, and if I get outside of that, I follow the instructions described in the article for getting back into that range.

Larry

 

[s2nhle]

Great, Thank you for sharing.