Cant stop Alk/Ca from dropping

GainesvilleReef · Oct 31, 2015

Don't try to adjust on every test. Look for a trend. Your are trying to make adjustments on changes that are lower than the accuracy of the test kits. Take 3 or 4 tests over two weeks then make adjustments. Then give it another week or two. I believe my Hanna checker has a stated accuracy of 5 % which could be 7-8 ppm or 0.4 dKH. Just pick a 1 dkH range and try to keep in that range. I work my tank between 7-8 dkH. I just test my alkalinity and dose equal amounts of two part. I correct Ca with a manual dose, if needed, about every 4-6 months when I test it. Dialing in dosing takes patience.

clownsrcool · Oct 31, 2015

Well my levels have gone down 1.6 dkh so far and still dropping. I've had one piece bleach out from the change. I need it to stop.

GainesvilleReef · Nov 1, 2015

IMO, you are overdosing. How old is your tank? How long have you been dosing? Are you actually seeing coral or coralline growth? In other words does your tank really have a demand that high.? What is your dosing procedure? Are you dripping in the additives or all at once. And are you adding Ca and Alk at the same time? When you start having a lot of precipitation you can actually reduce your levels. You may want to try stopping dosing entirely for a few days. If your parameters level out some this could be what is going on.

clownsrcool · Nov 1, 2015

My tank is almost 2 years old. I am noticing my growth really starting to take off but like I said I was dosing about 66ml a month ago and holding levels pretty steady. Then it seemed like overnight my levels just started to drop and have been dropping by about .1 ml per day. I just can't see that me upping my dose almost 50% hasn't at least caused my levels to bottom out.

I use a doser and dose 24 times a day. It's a bubble magus doser and I dose BRS 2 part. Unfortunately they have to dose within 5 min of each other because that is all the doser allows.

I don't know exactly what to look for as far as precipitate goes. I don't know what that will look like.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 1, 2015

GainesvilleReef said:
IMO, you are overdosing. How old is your tank? How long have you been dosing? Are you actually seeing coral or coralline growth? In other words does your tank really have a demand that high.? What is your dosing procedure? Are you dripping in the additives or all at once. And are you adding Ca and Alk at the same time? When you start having a lot of precipitation you can actually reduce your levels. You may want to try stopping dosing entirely for a few days. If your parameters level out some this could be what is going on.

He's dosing less than 2 dKH per day. Why do you think that is overdosing?

GainesvilleReef · Nov 1, 2015

clownsrcool said:
My tank is almost 2 years old. I am noticing my growth really starting to take off but like I said I was dosing about 66ml a month ago and holding levels pretty steady. Then it seemed like overnight my levels just started to drop and have been dropping by about .1 ml per day. I just can't see that me upping my dose almost 50% hasn't at least caused my levels to bottom out.

I use a doser and dose 24 times a day. It's a bubble magus doser and I dose BRS 2 part. Unfortunately they have to dose within 5 min of each other because that is all the doser allows.

I don't know exactly what to look for as far as precipitate goes. I don't know what that will look like.

White powder looking stuff on sump bottom, heaters and structures in the sump.

clownsrcool · Nov 1, 2015

I don't see any of that. I also think that if everything was precipitating out, when I added 200ml of the calcium most of it would have precipitated out too and the calcium level wouldn't have risen like it did.

GainesvilleReef · Nov 1, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
He's dosing less than 2 dKH per day. Why do you think that is overdosing?

Well first, I was assuming that this may be a new tank and the more he added the more it went down. That was a wrong assumption. And I agree that it is not that much. My second thought was that the high end of his pH might be causing a precipitation problem.

GainesvilleReef · Nov 1, 2015

Just a thought. But since your mag is increasing, is there any chance you mixed up the containers while mixing or refilling? It's all white powder the containers are the same.

clownsrcool · Nov 1, 2015

No. I've got those mag containers in the back corner of my supply closet and they are still full

clownsrcool · Nov 1, 2015

Up'd my dosage to 100ml yesterday and this evening my level just tested at 6.832 which is another drop of .11

I decided to dose a 1 time addition of 10ml to get me back in the 6.9's

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 2, 2015

That sounds good.

clownsrcool · Nov 2, 2015

Tested today and all rose .06! Finally trending in the right direction

clownsrcool · Nov 5, 2015

Ok so it still doesn't seem to be working right. On the 1st I was dosing 100ml and did a 1 time 10ml dosage that night. The night after I left the dose at 100ml and tested and it had gone up the .06 I posted. On the 3rd my Alk was back down by the .06. So I up'd my dosage to 115ml and did a 1 time 10ml dosage too. On the 4th I did no adjustments and rested and my level stayed at 6.832. So I thought I leveled off. No adjustments made. Today I tested at my level is at 6.72. So it dropped .11

What I don't get is it seems to consistently drop by .1 dkh each day no matter how much I increase it. Since I started this thread until today I have gone from 66ml to 115 and still no leveling off.

My calcium is now at 410 btw.

malira · Nov 5, 2015

I have the same problem. I've be dosing ESV part 1 to bring up my alk, but it keeps dropping. So I increased the kalk in my ATO it hasn't helped. I guess I need to add more kalk.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 6, 2015

malira said:
I have the same problem. I've be dosing ESV part 1 to bring up my alk, but it keeps dropping. So I increased the kalk in my ATO it hasn't helped. I guess I need to add more kalk.

More of either one. How much B-ionic are you adding to what size tank?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 6, 2015

clownsrcool said:
Ok so it still doesn't seem to be working right. On the 1st I was dosing 100ml and did a 1 time 10ml dosage that night. The night after I left the dose at 100ml and tested and it had gone up the .06 I posted. On the 3rd my Alk was back down by the .06. So I up'd my dosage to 115ml and did a 1 time 10ml dosage too. On the 4th I did no adjustments and rested and my level stayed at 6.832. So I thought I leveled off. No adjustments made. Today I tested at my level is at 6.72. So it dropped .11

What I don't get is it seems to consistently drop by .1 dkh each day no matter how much I increase it. Since I started this thread until today I have gone from 66ml to 115 and still no leveling off.

My calcium is now at 410 btw.

How are you measuring alkalinity?

While it doesn't alter your issue, I'd stop thinking about all those digits since they are not accurate. Think of 6.8 dKH, 6.9, etc.

I'd up the dosing amount again. Maybe 130 mL per day. I'd also double check that it is what it claims to be. Try taking a few mL of the alk additive (or the solid it is made from) and add some vinegar. It should bubble.

malira · Nov 6, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
More of either one. How much B-ionic are you adding to what size tank?

I have a 90g DT, 120g total. When I dose 15 ml of part 1 the dKh Wil go up by .3 to .4 dKh. When I don't I will drop by .15 dKh a day.

Kalk is 16 tsp for a 15g ATO.

My tank is @ 8 dKh right now.
The tank is recovering from an ultra low nutrient system problem. The corals have started to grow and color up a lot after almost 6 to 8 months of stagnation.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 6, 2015

malira said:
I have a 90g DT, 120g total. When I dose 15 ml of part 1 the dKh Wil go up by .3 to .4 dKh. When I don't I will drop by .15 dKh a day.

Kalk is 16 tsp for a 15g ATO.

My tank is @ 8 dKh right now.
The tank is recovering from an ultra low nutrient system problem. The corals have started to grow and color up a lot after almost 6 to 8 months of stagnation.

FWIW, 8 dKH is fine, but you can raise the amount of calcium hydroxide in your ATO.

0.3 gallons of saturated (2 teaspoon per gallon) is roughly equivalent of 15 mL of the B-ionic.

malira · Nov 6, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
FWIW, 8 dKH is fine, but you can raise the amount of calcium hydroxide in your ATO.

0.3 gallons of saturated (2 teaspoon per gallon) is roughly equivalent of 15 mL of the B-ionic.

Thank you.

Is there a normal or an acceptable of amount of alkalinity loss between water changes or should the kalk hold it steady if you are dosing the right amount to keep the calcium where you want it?
Is there a normal or acceptable swing in between the ATO top offs?

I took over this tank for my son in August, when he went off to college. This was the exact time of the ULNS problem. Thanks to Diesel, Ben V., who guided me out of the hole my tank was in.