Caribbean corals in the hobby?

[Doctorgori]

Anybody have any? I’ve never seen Staghorn or Elkhorn is it because of CITES or whatever?
If there are any who has them and what is available?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Cervicornis and Palmata are ESA listed, as well as CITES, so you definitely need to steer clear of them. The only gray area that I can think of is IF they are growing on cultured LR, they could possibly be exempt...I know other Atlantic corals are, not sure about those two....

Jay

 

[TerraFerma]

It's a big no go. And unfortunately rock culturing areas don't seem to overlap with Caribbean staghorn/eklhorn areas. Which is to stay the only ones I know of are in the gulf and the Northern Keys.

 

[Doctorgori]

It's a big no go. And unfortunately rock culturing areas don't seem to overlap with Caribbean staghorn/eklhorn areas. Which is to stay the only ones I know of are in the gulf and the Northern Keys.

Do you or anyone else know what is the northern limit of acropora in the Atlantic/Gulf/Caribbean?
Are you saying rock culturing is limited to certain areas and those areas are mostly outside reef building corals natural range?
I remember back in the 60’s many vacationers brought back souvenirs from the Caribbean islands esp Jamaica.
Correct me if I’m wrong but lettuce coral and elkhorn used to adorn many coffee tables back then.

I’ve seen videos of organizations growing them for repopulating. No chance those corals are available ?
Also saw a MACNA speaker or someone finding corals in Miami canals. Wonder if collecting in city limits is ok?

 

[Casket_Case]

I’ve been looking for Caribbean sps for ages but haven’t found any. The only one you could get is fire coral and I don’t think they sell it by itself you’ve got to get it on live rock. Also Occulina Varicosa the Ivory Bush Coral but I’ve only seen it on live rock too. You can get Floridian corals like mushrooms (most Floridian corals stretch down to the Caribbean, whatever grows in Floridian waters typically grows in Caribbean waters), Caribbean zoanthids, also Gorgonians. If you’ve ever bought from a collector you could ask them for live barnacle or oyster clusters if you want some fillers.

 

[Casket_Case]

Do you or anyone else know what is the northern limit of acropora in the Atlantic/Gulf/Caribbean?
Are you saying rock culturing is limited to certain areas and those areas are mostly outside reef building corals natural range?
I remember back in the 60’s many vacationers brought back souvenirs from the Caribbean islands esp Jamaica.
Correct me if I’m wrong but lettuce coral and elkhorn used to adorn many coffee tables back then.

I’ve seen videos of organizations growing them for repopulating. No chance those corals are available ?
Also saw a MACNA speaker or someone finding corals in Miami canals. Wonder if collecting in city limits is ok?

You have to have licensure to collect any kind of tropical anywhere.

Marine Life and Tropical Ornamentals

Marine Life Tropical Ornamentals

myfwc.com

There is corals in Miami canals in fact there’s one thriving reef in a Miami canal that Disney wants to remove to make room for a cruise ship... you can sign the petition against it here:

https://**************/p/save-the-c...llow-disney-cruises-to-destroy-our-urban-reef

 

[Doctorgori]

wow you can’t collect them but if you want to dredge or drill its OK?
I see the end coming to the loose environmental regulations

 

[Casket_Case]

E

wow you can’t collect them but if you want to dredge or drill its OK?
I see the end coming to the loose environmental regulations

Exactly. I think it’s absolutely disgusting and I can’t see myself ever supporting Disney.

 

[EMeyer]

I believe all Caribbean hard corals are illegal to collect or sell, certainly thats the case for the ESA listed ones.

Its pretty silly really. Long after Caribbean reefs finish collapsing, hobbyists will still be propagating coral genotypes that have been in the hobby for many decades. If the extremists hadnt pushed for zero tolerance bans, the surviving corals could include some Caribbean ones.

We can bulldoze acres of living reefs for coastal development but if you take a coral from the ocean and put it in an aquarium, thats illegal. Good stuff!

(want to really see how dumb it is? Collection and sales of the sun coral Tubastrea coccinea from the Caribbean is illegal. This is an invasive species. Managers throughout the Caribbean and Gulf are charged with collecting and destroying it. But collect some and sell it? Illegal)

 

[lemonade]

I know a few people with strict Florida biotopes, and they have all the good stuff. You wont see them on these boards or posting about it online, though.

It's sad that our state is constantly running new storm drains into the bays and rivers decimating the local sea life, but competent hobbyists that can grow massive colonies of acropora cannot aquaculture these corals and help preserve them?

 

[Casket_Case]

I believe all Caribbean hard corals are illegal to collect or sell, certainly thats the case for the ESA listed ones.

Its pretty silly really. Long after Caribbean reefs finish collapsing, hobbyists will still be propagating coral genotypes that have been in the hobby for many decades. If the extremists hadnt pushed for zero tolerance bans, the surviving corals could include some Caribbean ones.

We can bulldoze acres of living reefs for coastal development but if you take a coral from the ocean and put it in an aquarium, thats illegal. Good stuff!

(want to really see how dumb it is? Collection and sales of the sun coral Tubastrea coccinea from the Caribbean is illegal. This is an invasive species. Managers throughout the Caribbean and Gulf are charged with collecting and destroying it. But collect some and sell it? Illegal)

Exactly!!! And I don’t understand it! We can hunt lion fish that are invasive but not this coral?

 

[shred5]

There are plenty of gorgonia, zoas and some Corallimorpharia.
The only stonies or SPS corals would come in on aquacultured rock. None are legal to collect.

The other thing is there really are only a few acropora and the main two are the acropora palmata and Acropora cervicornis. Acropora palmata would be difficult and would require a large tank. I do not think many would be interested in the acros.

There has been porities that has made it into the hobby. Probably on some rock at one point. I have seen none of it in a long time though.

 

[Doctorgori]

Gheez, could be worse: at least staghorn coral isn’t part of some ancient traditional medicine
I say give it a funny name “Nuclear Stagmoose”, and frag the h3ll outta it

 

[poidog]

You can come down here and I'll show you were there are massive colonies a few yards off the coast in 15 ft of water. Despite them being protected from collection due to their endangered status (not due to CITES as that pertains to crossing international boarders) they are not the prettiest - brown in color - nor space friendly to bring into a tank. There are many universities and the Coral Restoration Foundation that propagate our Atlantic SPS. Colin with Coral Morphologic has even found new hybrid SPS species in the coastal waters of Miami. I've lived in the Caribbean for several years and the reefs of the S. FL coast are in healthy and better condition than many of those in the Caribbean islands.

 

[Justin Aretz]

These zoas I collected and since have Aquacultured right out of my backyard here in Palm Beach, Florida. That green plating coral was a local SPS (LPS?) (not mine nor did I collect it). Carribean elkhorn and staghorn are very brown under both full spectrum and actinic, so I wouldn’t expect them to be popular in the trade. There is a scientific institution on my block that does work with these two genus in an aquaculture setting and, though interesting, not visually appealing by today’s hobbyist’s standards.

 

[Justin Aretz]

I have about 12 different zoas I’ve collected locally and legally. Mushrooms and rock flowers as well.

In response to an above post, the harvesting of gorgonias is not legal here in Florida to my knowledge.

 

[poidog]

Here are some coral pics on the reef by my house. Have many more and fish/critter pics. @Justin Aretz here are your zoas too

 

[TerraFerma]

Do you or anyone else know what is the northern limit of acropora in the Atlantic/Gulf/Caribbean?
Are you saying rock culturing is limited to certain areas and those areas are mostly outside reef building corals natural range?
I remember back in the 60’s many vacationers brought back souvenirs from the Caribbean islands esp Jamaica.
Correct me if I’m wrong but lettuce coral and elkhorn used to adorn many coffee tables back then.

I’ve seen videos of organizations growing them for repopulating. No chance those corals are available ?
Also saw a MACNA speaker or someone finding corals in Miami canals. Wonder if collecting in city limits is ok?

All great questions!

I assume one could culture rock in any Caribbean country if permits were pulled. But no one is doing that and it's still a game of slim odds getting an SPS on a piece of live rock. Beyond that I have a feeling US F&W would have a problem with someone selling a piece even if they acquired through the legal loophole of getting it on rock.

60's was a long time ago.

The reef repopulation people have enough trouble getting permits to do that. Let alone sell anything for funding purposes. Silly but it is what it is. The general view is that if someone can get something legally then it will encourage a black market supply. Thus why you can't legally buy Tiger "parts" even if its from a captive bred tiger. That said look how the war on drugs has worked out.

 

[Tom Giddens]

I believe all Caribbean hard corals are illegal to collect or sell, certainly thats the case for the ESA listed ones.

Its pretty silly really. Long after Caribbean reefs finish collapsing, hobbyists will still be propagating coral genotypes that have been in the hobby for many decades. If the extremists hadnt pushed for zero tolerance bans, the surviving corals could include some Caribbean ones.

We can bulldoze acres of living reefs for coastal development but if you take a coral from the ocean and put it in an aquarium, thats illegal. Good stuff!

(want to really see how dumb it is? Collection and sales of the sun coral Tubastrea coccinea from the Caribbean is illegal. This is an invasive species. Managers throughout the Caribbean and Gulf are charged with collecting and destroying it. But collect some and sell it? Illegal)

From what I have been told it is all over oil rigs in the gulf. I have never been able to keep it alive for some reason and sometimes it wont even open at all

 

[Tom Giddens]

There are plenty of gorgonia, zoas and some Corallimorpharia.
The only stonies or SPS corals would come in on aquacultured rock. None are legal to collect.

The other thing is there really are only a few acropora and the main two are the acropora palmata and Acropora cervicornis. Acropora palmata would be difficult and would require a large tank. I do not think many would be interested in the acros.

There has been porities that has made it into the hobby. Probably on some rock at one point. I have seen none of it in a long time though.

I have got porities on florida aquacultured rock before but it has always died off in the cycle? And with the tech and lighting today those unappealing acros may take on complete different colors than in the wild?