Chaeto issues again! Is there a better way?

[Scrubber_steve]

How big a scrubber do you use and what size tank?

I've just got a 46g tank. Been testing a scrubber on this tank for the last 5 weeks.
Feeding two cubes a day, a 6" x 4" screen was able to keep no3 at 4ppm and PO4 at 0.03

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Algae removes NO3/4 from the water directly, it isn't converted to NO2/3.

What are you trying to say with that sentence?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

What are you trying to say with that sentence?

nitrification converts ammonia/ammonium to no2 then no3.

Algae takes up the nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium, synthesizes it into tissue.
You'll get some residual no3 of course, but algae deals with that as well, so de-nitrification is unimportant!

 

[Deezill]

Is there a better way of keeping nitrates at bay? I really like the pH effect but I can’t deal with Frowning great one minute making a mess the next. I’m going to try dosing the iron but if that doesn’t work I will need to find another way.

I use NoPox by red sea until I got my nitrates under control. That stuff works great imho.

 

[madweazl]

I wouldn't expect the issue to be related to iron; I've submitted three samples to Triton and all have come back with 0 iron. I clicked the HD link you posted but it didnt take me to a specific light. Any more details on that? While I'm currently running a Kessil H80 over the refugium, I ran a pair of 6500k compact fluorescents over it for quite a while with good results (standard clip on fixtures).

What are your current nitrate and phosphate levels (i.e. is there enough to sustain life for the macro-algae)?

I started off with a 14 hour photo-period and ended up at 16 hours. I don't remember why I increased that anymore (I'm sure it's in my notes somewhere).

 

[sghera64]

My light could be better, it’s a Home Depot floodlight 6500k, but I don’t think it’s the light because it grows great for awhile then stops.

I just recalled that a couple years ago, I had a failed attempt to grow chaeto. I introduced it in my frag tank beneath a 10K MH bulb with actinic T5’s. It grew at first, then just seemed to shrink. I moved some of it to my sump, illuminated with a 6000K fluorescent bulb. It slowly disappeared.

Recently, I tried an algae refugium again. This time, I used a horticulture LED lamp over my sump and seeded the sump with up a which had two small peanut sized clumps of chaeto. The Ulva took off at first, but then went through 2 die-offs and slight restarts (kinda like your cheato now). However, the chaeto clumps grew to golfball sized. Over about 1-2 months, the chaeto completely took off. It now fills about 1/2 of an 18 gallon Rubbermaid tote (my algae ‘fuge).

A couple months ago, I noticed that in my DT and my frag tanks, a few pieces of Ulva somehow managed to take ahold of the power heads and were growing. I clipped a few pieces of Ulva off and tied them to eggcrate to keep them from drifting around and sunk them in my frag tank. The DT is under LED’s with T5 (more blue light) and the frag tank is lit by Radium 20K with T5. This Ulva is taking off.

All this to day, perhaps Ulva prefer cooler light 10-20K and Chaeto prefer more of that red-purple light.

I wonder if you would consider one of the low-cost LED options. Many out there have used 4R + 1B LED strips. I bought a 600W COB (Chip On Board) for about $100 - - but they don’t sell it anymore on Amazon. Here is a similar one they do sell at Amazon you might consider:

Roleadro COB LED Grow light, Upgraded Reflector-Series 300W Plant Grow Light Full Sp... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077YKVVLY/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_o5XRAbD68JFBZ

 

[Scrubber_steve]

All this to day, perhaps Ulva prefer cooler light 10-20K and Chaeto prefer more of that red-purple light.

No, i get awsome ulva growth with just 660nm

 

[Clownfish2]

The only downfall to removing the chaeto and carbon dosing is losing the bump in pH at night. I feel like every time I kick one problem another pops up.

A great way to maintain constant pH is to run the air intake on your skimmer to outside air. My pH is 8.3 day and night. The air intake of the skimmer attaches to a 1 inch PVC pipe via a 5/8 diameter tubing. The PVC pipe has a layer of charcoal sandwiched by a 2 pieces of filter pad. The pipe runs through a piece of plywood wedged in the window tracks behind the tank to outside air.

I too have chaeto that will not grow below an H380 on a 8 hour light cycle. I think when the fish load and nutrients increase,the chaeto will grow.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I too have chaeto that will not grow below an H380 on a 8 hour light cycle. I think when the fish load and nutrients increase,the chaeto will grow.

I ran an experiment about two years ago, using an ATS, where I had a zero readings for no3 on a RedSea, and near zero po4 on a salifert for several months.
Ulva Algae on a screen twice the surface area as the one I'm presently using (same feeding load) always grew,,, plenty of algae.

 

[Braves Fan]

I was having the same problem as you are having ,, the smart people in my local forum suggested that I start dosing a iron supplement ,, which I did ,,, this is what I got ,,, https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/two-little-fishies-iron-concentrate-250-ml.html ,,, took a week or so to kick in ,,, no more problems,, its suggested to dose 1 capful for every 25g in your system ,,, thats what I am doing ,,, no problems and the cheatto is growing good,,,

My Nitrate number is still pain I can control that number with the amount of food I feed my fish ,, the chaetto & weekly water changes ,,, I am still not happy I feel like I am having to starve my fish,, the corals or at least some of the corals ,, sps ,, aren't liking the water changes ,,, growth has slowed ,,,

My answer ,, I just put a Bio Pellet reactor online ,, I am starting out slow with the pellets , just 1/2 cup on a 155g system ,, my Nitrates are at 25 ,, the reactor has been running 48 hours ,, I am going to add another 1/2 cup of pellets at the end of the week, I have them soaking in Micro Bacter 7 as we speak,,

Where will all of this play out ,, no clue ,, I will keep testing and see what happens ,,,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

nitrification converts ammonia/ammonium to no2 then no3.

Algae takes up the nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium, synthesizes it into tissue.
You'll get some residual no3 of course, but algae deals with that as well, so de-nitrification is unimportant!

Ah, I see. I was confused by NO3/4, but presumably that meant NH3/4.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wouldn't expect the issue to be related to iron; I've submitted three samples to Triton and all have come back with 0 iron.

While I am not saying it is due to lack of iron, a Triton ICP test is not useful evidence when none is detected. Triton cannot detect the NSW level of iron, and even folks dosing iron (like me) may not see any since it rapidly depletes (I saw zero despite dosing).

 

[Fritzhamer]

In terms of a "better way" that's subjective as every tank is different. For me GFO and carbon dosing was "better" because I can control and measure how much I drop nutrients by. Cheato, while I love the holistic approach, left me with and created too many variables. I had better results using various Caulerpas than I did with cheato but in the end it still wasn't as great a solution for me as GFO and carbon dosing when needed.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Ah, I see. I was confused by NO3/4, but presumably that meant NH3/4.

ah, yes; thanks Randy. I just realised I made that error with my first post.

Yes, "Algae removes NO3/4 from the water directly" should have said

Algae removes NH3/4 from the water directly


Happy Reefing

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Is there a better way of keeping nitrates at bay? I really like the pH effect but I can’t deal with Frowning great one minute making a mess the next. I’m going to try dosing the iron but if that doesn’t work I will need to find another way.

Just curious , are there specific issues with the corals or the tank with the nutrients ?
My chato is kinda dying off right now in my sumped tank too. Same light I’ve had for a long time now.

Corals are fine to great to how do I stop that from growing? Lol.

A lot of amazing tanks don’t have a fuge. Or macros.

 

[mgreenough]

Sounds like you fell into the trap most people have fallen into with triton, as i too had this issue. They dont recommend leaving it to grow unhibited and let it die off, but rather prune it when required, harvesting half dead and live macro. That way you are exporting nutrients via removal but leaving some dead algae to release the amino acids. Also making room for new algae growth.

I had a sump full of chaeto and various caulerpa melt on me due to nutrients being stripped too heavily after the sump filled. I then battled gha for months afterwards due to the excess nutrients due to the die off.

So remember to harvest taking old and new growth when required.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That way you are exporting nutrients via removal but leaving some dead algae to release the amino acids. Also making room for new algae growth.
.

FWIW, I think that is a debateable topic. In fact, we have been debating it at length in the Triton forum, but Triton has failed to respond with any justification of their claim that macroalgae does what they say.

Algae release "useful proteins, carbohydrates and metabolites."
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...roteins-carbohydrates-and-metabolites.359116/

 

[madweazl]

While I am not saying it is due to lack of iron, a Triton ICP test is not useful evidence when none is detected. Triton cannot detect the NSW level of iron, and even folks dosing iron (like me) may not see any since it rapidly depletes (I saw zero despite dosing).

How can we eliminate it as a variable?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How can we eliminate it as a variable?

Iron? Dosing is easy and diy cheap. [emoji3]

 

[madweazl]

Iron? Dosing is easy and diy cheap. [emoji3]

I'm assuming if Triton cant detect NSW levels, the same is true for me with a consumer based kit? What do you we use as a baseline for dosing and subsequently, ensure we dont go too high?