Chemiclean Nuked tank!

[saltyfilmfolks]

I've dumped this junk in my sps tank, went back for a second round without doing a water change and everything was fine. skimmer was useless for two weeks but lost no corals. I dunno.

really old tank?

fwiw i got ill drs, suspected infection, pumped me full of anti biotics as perscribed by weight n age, wound up with 2 other secondary infections (mersa). my gut didn't recover for over a year. the drs seemed surprised.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

I've broken every single one of these rules without harm. including in a bc29. maybe not smart but I did it, numerous times throughout the years. zero negative effects.

Something else is going on with this tank. I see a ton of green algae.

I can only see 2 issues with using Chemi-Clean.

I know many people that have used it many times over the years with no issues.

One friend of mine used it once and claimed that it killed corals.

I told him it must be something else not the Chemi-Clean.

Recently I found out just how much he feeds his fish which is Insane!

I do not know how he doesn't crash his tank from Ammonia due to what he feeds his fish!

I thought I feed alot and worry often.

He Feeds like 6 Times what I do every day.

My thought is that he had Corals die because he was Powerfeeding like he normally does while using Chemi-Clean.

It will kill the Beneficial Bacteria so you have to be very very careful when you use it.

I always tell people

1. Use an Airstone because Chemi-Clean Severly Lowers Oxygen and can Kill Animals because of that. I think I read somewhere that within a Minute of Adding it to the Tank like 75 Percent of the Oxygen is Stripped Out of the Tank! Many Many Years Ago the First Time I used Chemi-Clean I Didn't use an Airstone. First Day was Fine. Came Back from work on Day 2 to Find 75 Percent of my Fish Dead, Starfish Dead, Shrimp Dead. Corals were all Fine Though.

2. Don't feed Anything (No Fish Food and No Coral Food at All) for 4 Days. Obviously Don't Feed During the 2 Day Treatment but also Don't Feed the Day Before and Don't Feed the Day after it is Over. Then the Second Day after the Water Change and After the Treatment is Over Slowly Start Ramping Up Feeding to your Normal Feeding so you do not cause an Ammonia Spike due to Lack of Beneficial Bacteria in the Tank.

3. Do a 50 Percent Water Change after Treatment. I know the Box says 25 Percent but to be safe do a 50 Percent Water Change.

4. Don't Forget to Add Carbon After the Treatment. Carbon will Pull Out Any Remaining Chemi-Clean After the Water Change.

 

[Knapp870]

I've broken every single one of these rules without harm. including in a bc29. maybe not smart but I did it, numerous times throughout the years. zero negative effects.

Something else is going on with this tank. I see a ton of green algae.

Well you're wrong dude. Thanks for playing. I have 12+ years experience in this hobby. Just cause you do dumb stuff and bad stuff doesn't happen consider yourself lucky.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

No need to be rude. how long you have (or have not) been in the hobby is irrelevant. in fact, I have over 20 years of experience in the industry. so what? not relevant.

I posted that to show one can break the rules repeatedly with Chemiclean and things can still be OK. it's not recommended obviously but in my experience it's proven to be very safe even when NOT following the directions.

Well you're wrong dude. Thanks for playing. I have 12+ years experience in this hobby. Just cause you do dumb stuff and bad stuff doesn't happen consider yourself lucky.

 

[skybears]

No need to be rude. how long you have (or have not) been in the hobby is irrelevant. in fact, I have over 20 years of experience in the industry. so what? not relevant.

I posted that to show one can break the rules repeatedly with Chemiclean and things can still be OK. it's not recommended obviously but in my experience it's proven to be very safe even when NOT following the directions.

Okay this is been a very interesting reading and I think people are getting a little testy this is what I did for myself regarding this product. I sent an email to the manufacturer and I asked for a report of all their chemical uses for their product and a clear compound of their product and I should hear something within 24 hours and I was very polite and my letter but very to the point of what I was getting too so hopefully if the 24 hours we will have a response on the chemical compounds of the product and how they feel the product should be used besides the instructions for the bottle from their Laboratory and I kind of used my work email for the this LOL so I definitely we will have a answer within 24 hours which I will post a copy of the letter and everybody will get the same information that I get, Viola they have 24 hours to respond to me when I questioned the compound of their product so we will have a definite answer or I fine them

 

[melev]

I'm not sure what happened, but I also didn't read 8 pages of comments. I have used Chemi-Clean (and RedCyano Rx) dozens of times over the years, and have recommended it to anyone dealing with a cyano outbreak. I've never had a single thing die in any system I treated, other than getting rid of the red crap accumulated on the sandbed and rocks.

And I'll point out that at one time, I had such a stubborn strain I used it at 200% strength because nothing else had worked. That got rid of it, and my reef looked great. If I have time, I'll re-read this thread to see what happened, but for now I'll post what I recommend to others:

"To treat your tank with best results, it would be best to siphon out as much of the cyano bacteria out of your tank first. Reducing the volume of red slime from the aquarium helps avoid issues. Be sure to point one powerhead at the surface to get strong rippling, which improves oxygenation of the water. Plugging in an airpump and airstone to add oxygen to the water is another good idea, especially in tanks with low flow.

Turn off the protein skimmer, and stop running carbon and GFO. The tank can be treated day or night, and all of your livestock is safe. While the tank is being treated, start mixing up new saltwater because a big water change is next. After 72 hours, check the tank and if the cyano is gone, do a 25% or larger water change. If cyano is still present, wait another 24 hours. If it is still present, treat the tank again. Once the cyano is gone, do the big water change. The bigger, the better, because the product will cause protein skimmers to oveflow initially. Adjust the skimmer to the lowest water level in the body, and as the collection cup fills with watery skimmate, toss it out. Keep tossing out skimmate and replenish the system with more saltwater. After a few hours, the skimmer should settle down finally. If microbubbles are getting the best of you, put a filter sock on the output of the skimmer for the first day. "

 

[skybears]

I'm not sure what happened, but I also didn't read 8 pages of comments. I have used Chemi-Clean (and RedCyano Rx) dozens of times over the years, and have recommended it to anyone dealing with a cyano outbreak. I've never had a single thing die in any system I treated, other than getting rid of the red crap accumulated on the sandbed and rocks.

And I'll point out that at one time, I had such a stubborn strain I used it at 200% strength because nothing else had worked. That got rid of it, and my reef looked great. If I have time, I'll re-read this thread to see what happened, but for now I'll post what I recommend to others:

"To treat your tank with best results, it would be best to siphon out as much of the cyano bacteria out of your tank first. Reducing the volume of red slime from the aquarium helps avoid issues. Be sure to point one powerhead at the surface to get strong rippling, which improves oxygenation of the water. Plugging in an airpump and airstone to add oxygen to the water is another good idea, especially in tanks with low flow.

Turn off the protein skimmer, and stop running carbon and GFO. The tank can be treated day or night, and all of your livestock is safe. While the tank is being treated, start mixing up new saltwater because a big water change is next. After 72 hours, check the tank and if the cyano is gone, do a 25% or larger water change. If cyano is still present, wait another 24 hours. If it is still present, treat the tank again. Once the cyano is gone, do the big water change. The bigger, the better, because the product will cause protein skimmers to oveflow initially. Adjust the skimmer to the lowest water level in the body, and as the collection cup fills with watery skimmate, toss it out. Keep tossing out skimmate and replenish the system with more saltwater. After a few hours, the skimmer should settle down finally. If microbubbles are getting the best of you, put a filter sock on the output of the skimmer for the first day. "

Wow and all this is coming down to the cleaner and all I'm worried about is in my dreams a 10-foot mantis shrimp is going to eat my face thank you for all the information I am interested in hearing what the manufacturer has to say and then I'll post it but I think everybody has done such a super job and helping people and that's what you're here for so again thank you very much

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

Sorry you aren't going to get any useful information. many have tried in the past and they are tight lipped. it is a proprietary mixture and they will not spill it.

Also......the package says "Contains no phosphates, algacides or erythromycin succinate. "

There's more than one type of erythromycin.

Okay this is been a very interesting reading and I think people are getting a little testy this is what I did for myself regarding this product. I sent an email to the manufacturer and I asked for a report of all their chemical uses for their product and a clear compound of their product and I should hear something within 24 hours and I was very polite and my letter but very to the point of what I was getting too so hopefully if the 24 hours we will have a response on the chemical compounds of the product and how they feel the product should be used besides the instructions for the bottle from their Laboratory and I kind of used my work email for the this LOL so I definitely we will have a answer within 24 hours which I will post a copy of the letter and everybody will get the same information that I get, Viola they have 24 hours to respond to me when I questioned the compound of their product so we will have a definite answer or I fine them

 

[Knapp870]

No need to be rude. how long you have (or have not) been in the hobby is irrelevant. in fact, I have over 20 years of experience in the industry. so what? not relevant.

I posted that to show one can break the rules repeatedly with Chemiclean and things can still be OK. it's not recommended obviously but in my experience it's proven to be very safe even when NOT following the directions.

It's also been shown repeatedly to cause issues when not following the rules so there you go. The only thing changing with the tank was introduction of chemiclean and turning off skimmer, so whether it was a release of toxins or lack of oxygen or old chemical the chemiclean was the trigger that set off the chain of events.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well you're wrong dude. Thanks for playing. I have 12+ years experience in this hobby. Just cause you do dumb stuff and bad stuff doesn't happen consider yourself lucky.

It read very differently here. I know it's been a long day.

I did read it as yea I've blown it a Bunch and this didn't happen. Not a blame.
There is something else going on.
I agree. It's why I enter to know what the chem does. If it's a anti bac or an oxidizer.
I would want to know if there was a drug reaction or a bad mix.
Or was it a perfect storm.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm not sure what happened, but I also didn't read 8 pages of comments. I have used Chemi-Clean (and RedCyano Rx) dozens of times over the years, and have recommended it to anyone dealing with a cyano outbreak. I've never had a single thing die in any system I treated, other than getting rid of the red crap accumulated on the sandbed and rocks.

And I'll point out that at one time, I had such a stubborn strain I used it at 200% strength because nothing else had worked. That got rid of it, and my reef looked great. If I have time, I'll re-read this thread to see what happened, but for now I'll post what I recommend to others:

"To treat your tank with best results, it would be best to siphon out as much of the cyano bacteria out of your tank first. Reducing the volume of red slime from the aquarium helps avoid issues. Be sure to point one powerhead at the surface to get strong rippling, which improves oxygenation of the water. Plugging in an airpump and airstone to add oxygen to the water is another good idea, especially in tanks with low flow.

Turn off the protein skimmer, and stop running carbon and GFO. The tank can be treated day or night, and all of your livestock is safe. While the tank is being treated, start mixing up new saltwater because a big water change is next. After 72 hours, check the tank and if the cyano is gone, do a 25% or larger water change. If cyano is still present, wait another 24 hours. If it is still present, treat the tank again. Once the cyano is gone, do the big water change. The bigger, the better, because the product will cause protein skimmers to oveflow initially. Adjust the skimmer to the lowest water level in the body, and as the collection cup fills with watery skimmate, toss it out. Keep tossing out skimmate and replenish the system with more saltwater. After a few hours, the skimmer should settle down finally. If microbubbles are getting the best of you, put a filter sock on the output of the skimmer for the first day. "

Thank you Mark.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

For sure! I never said what I've done was intentional lol.

 

[bhuyett]

What do you mean it won't bleach sps. Chemiclean was introduced, everything turned off except return pump, lights and a gfo reactor to absorb phosphate released by any organics. First 24 hours was fine but next 12 everything bleached.

I run an SPS system and have run Chemiclean two separate times with no ill effects. The second time I ran it twice back to back without doing the 20% water change. Of course the skimmer goes nuts for 24-48 hrs then returns to normal. Never had any bleaching of any corals or negative impacts of using the Chemical. I turned my GFO/Carbon reactor off during the process.

Looks like you are saying you left your GFO reactor on. Do you run a separate reactor for Carbon then?

 

[skybears]

On Boyd Enterprises website, they don't really specify which EM it doesn't contain. It just says no EM.

Correction, promotes enzymes not made with enzymes ... Trying to do a million things at once lol

That's correct but I want straight to their laboratory so I should be getting a pure chemical compound breakdown with any EM caused or produced by product. I want a complete breakdown so we can compare it to the vitals of a healthy tank to see where the compound would cause a negative situation which think that kind of sounds like the problem to me I'm not sure I've never used it I am not a saltwater professional at all I just deal with drugs this is a drug so I'm going to find out

 

[Knapp870]

No reactor for carbon to date. I just run it passively. Only gfo reactor.

 

[Knapp870]

Like I also said I also ran this successfully before so soemtowent haywire this time. The fix is "easy" water changes and prayers. Hopefully stuff pulls through but something was certainly triggered differently this time than previous experience and I'm not alone.

I've been in the hobby a long time and this is only the second time I've tried adding a chemical other than two part and aminos so lesson learned I should probably not play with fire haha.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

That's correct but I want straight to their laboratory so I should be getting a pure chemical compound breakdown with any EM caused or produced by product. I want a complete breakdown so we can compare it to the vitals of a healthy tank to see where the compound would cause a negative situation which think that kind of sounds like the problem to me I'm not sure I've never used it I am not a saltwater professional at all I just deal with drugs this is a drug so I'm going to find out

Sorry you aren't going to get any useful information. many have tried in the past and they are tight lipped. it is a proprietary mixture and they will not spill it.

Also......the package says "Contains no phosphates, algacides or erythromycin succinate. "

There's more than one type of erythromycin.

 

[skybears]

This is very true I'm sure they're very tight-lipped but in my field and in their field they have to respond to my question within 24 hours or I can fine them $10,000 so we will get an answer I promise

 

[Lenny_S]

FWIW, aeration and gas exchange is an important part of the treatment. The only reason the instructions say to turn off the skimmer is that once you dose, the skimmer will be overwhelmed. But what better way to aerate than a needle wheel pump. Just remove the cup and open it up wide, the overflow will just spill back into your sump.

And while @Knapp870 was a little less than cordial in his response, the point is still valid. Especially with something potent like Chemiclean, if you don't follow the directions and nothing bad happens it's probably more luck than anything. And if you do follow the directions and bad things still happen then either you're unlucky or (more likely) you are the other whatever percent of the cases where the potent stuff behaves badly (for whatever reason)

For the benefit of this thread, IME Chemiclean works well if you have a Cyano problem and you've already tried and failed with other means of control (nutrient reduction, lighting, and flow). BUT, it has some risk in using it and @Knapp870 is not the only case I've heard where there were very bad side effects. However, I have experienced and heard of far more cases where the product worked and the Cyano problem was solved. Just be careful.

 

[skybears]

This is very true I'm sure they're very tight-lipped but in my field and in their field they have to respond to my question within 24 hours or I can fine them $10,000 so we will get an answer I promise

I didn't mean to make that sound conceited I'm very sorry and I apologize I'm just stating that I am in that field and I am above them in the field so when we're talking about drugs if there's a question I can get an answer that's all I was trying to say so I apologize if I came off rude