Chemistry concern on new reef

[Mark-Stover]

Hello,

My tank (red sea reefer 425 g2) is now about 5 months old and it's in the midst of the ugly stage as you can see in the picture. Nothing shocking there. Lots of diatoms on the sand and surface algae on the rock. Snails and tangs are taking care of the algae for the most part. No hair algae. Everything seems happy except for the tiny hammer I got that I think has died. Here is my big

concern. In reviewing everything I can find, I'm seeing that having 0 phosphate and 0 nitrate could bring on dinoflagelates or cyano. So, I know I need to avoid it. I also read that if you are seeing 0 - 0, the algae is probably using it all up. Does this mean I need to up the feeding to increase my phosphate and nitrate, or do I turn off the rollermat, or turn off the skimmer, stop doing water changes (10 gallons per week done via apex) or do I need to dose something else? So far I've increased feeding, added additional nori, but all I've seen is the nitrate go from 5 to 1....wrong direction. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Current parameters:
Calcium - 450
Magnesium - 1350
Alk -9 dkh
ph - 8.25-8.35
Nitrate - 1
Phosphate - 0

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

Hello,

My tank (red sea reefer 425 g2) is now about 5 months old and it's in the midst of the ugly stage as you can see in the picture. Nothing shocking there. Lots of diatoms on the sand and surface algae on the rock. Snails and tangs are taking care of the algae for the most part. No hair algae. Everything seems happy except for the tiny hammer I got that I think has died. Here is my big

concern. In reviewing everything I can find, I'm seeing that having 0 phosphate and 0 nitrate could bring on dinoflagelates or cyano. So, I know I need to avoid it. I also read that if you are seeing 0 - 0, the algae is probably using it all up. Does this mean I need to up the feeding to increase my phosphate and nitrate, or do I turn off the rollermat, or turn off the skimmer, stop doing water changes (10 gallons per week done via apex) or do I need to dose something else? So far I've increased feeding, added additional nori, but all I've seen is the nitrate go from 5 to 1....wrong direction. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Current parameters:
Calcium - 450
Magnesium - 1350
Alk -9 dkh
ph - 8.25-8.35
Nitrate - 1
Phosphate - 0

How many fish do you have?

 

[bushdoc]

You sort of initiated reversed sequence of populating your tank. I see lots of frags, but only two fish.Am I right?
Corals do not produce much waste, fish do, so I would add more fish.

 

[Potatohead]

Add fish, manually remove algae.

Go Hawks.

 

[Dan_P]

Hello,

My tank (red sea reefer 425 g2) is now about 5 months old and it's in the midst of the ugly stage as you can see in the picture. Nothing shocking there. Lots of diatoms on the sand and surface algae on the rock. Snails and tangs are taking care of the algae for the most part. No hair algae. Everything seems happy except for the tiny hammer I got that I think has died. Here is my big

concern. In reviewing everything I can find, I'm seeing that having 0 phosphate and 0 nitrate could bring on dinoflagelates or cyano. So, I know I need to avoid it. I also read that if you are seeing 0 - 0, the algae is probably using it all up. Does this mean I need to up the feeding to increase my phosphate and nitrate, or do I turn off the rollermat, or turn off the skimmer, stop doing water changes (10 gallons per week done via apex) or do I need to dose something else? So far I've increased feeding, added additional nori, but all I've seen is the nitrate go from 5 to 1....wrong direction. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Current parameters:
Calcium - 450
Magnesium - 1350
Alk -9 dkh
ph - 8.25-8.35
Nitrate - 1
Phosphate - 0

If you believe low nitrate and phosphate increase the risk of dinoflagellate, just dose it. No need to do anything else. Keep doing what you are doing. It is a sound approach.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

I would get your nitrates and phos detectable.

Yes when they read 0 there could be tons of it being put in and consumed leaving you seeing 0 on tests, but that availability hitting 0 is when dinos that can outcompete for scraps can get a foothold.

Also, if you are using RODI that is 0 TDS amd you still have diatoms without dosing silicate, I would start suspecting the brown may not be diatoms.

Just in my experience, without something to facilitate a diatom bloom, that can't stick around long, they starve themselves out of silica and other organisms take their place in the food chain often keeping diatoms less than visible, though still always there.

 

[Mark-Stover]

How many fish do you have?

I have the following:
1- Scopas Tang
1 - Two spot bristletooth tang
2 - Ocellaris Clowns
1 - Royal Gramma
2 - Blue Saphire Damsels

 

[Mark-Stover]

I would get your nitrates and phos detectable.

Yes when they read 0 there could be tons of it being put in and consumed leaving you seeing 0 on tests, but that availability hitting 0 is when dinos that can outcompete for scraps can get a foothold.

Also, if you are using RODI that is 0 TDS amd you still have diatoms without dosing silicate, I would start suspecting the brown may not be diatoms.

Just in my experience, without something to facilitate a diatom bloom, that can't stick around long, they starve themselves out of silica and other organisms take their place in the food chain often keeping diatoms less than visible, though still always there.

Yes, I am using RODI, and double verified that its zero tds. So, if it’s not diatom, what is it? Should I vacuum it out? I used a piece of RO tubing and scraped at it. It’s like a crust. It doesn’t disappear at night and can’t be blown off the sand if that helps.

 

[Mark-Stover]

You sort of initiated reversed sequence of populating your tank. I see lots of frags, but only two fish.Am I right?
Corals do not produce much waste, fish do, so I would add more fish.

No, I have the following fish:

1- Scopas Tang
1 - Two spot bristletooth tang
2 - Ocellaris Clowns
1 - Royal Gramma
2 - Blue Saphire Damsels

 

[Mark-Stover]

If you believe low nitrate and phosphate increase the risk of dinoflagellate, just dose it. No need to do anything else. Keep doing what you are doing. It is a sound approach.

Thanks! I’ll give it a shot.

 

[Mark-Stover]

Add fish, manually remove algae.

Go Hawks.

I have 7 fish at this point. There is no algae that I can pull out as it’s only like a coloring on the rock. Nothing to get ahold of. I could use a toothbrush on it though I suppose. your “go hawks” comment really made me smile. I don’t hear that much here in Colorado.

 

[brandon429]

The lighting is 50% too bright for that degree of coral and rock maturity

Lesser light power ran for 9 hour photoperiods would do wonders for algae prevention, after you remove the rocks one at a time and clean them off externally

 

[Mark-Stover]

The lighting is 50% too bright for that degree of coral and rock maturity

Lesser light power ran for 9 hour photoperiods would do wonders for algae prevention, after you remove the rocks one at a time and clean them off externally

Thanks. I’ll turn down the lights. I really have only four rocks in there. Two are small like mounds for zoas and the other 2 are glued together to make a hnsa aquascape. So, I will hold off on pulling them out it I can.

 

[hunterallen40]

I highly recommend you try dosing nitrates and phosphates until they can remain detectible. Dry rock and sand binds them, and needs to saturate.

A great way to dose these is to get sodium nitrate and sodium phosphate. Then just mix some stock solutions (this is much more cost effective than neophos and neonitrate). LoudWolf makes some great salts for this.

 

[Lavey29]

Nice set up and rock scape. Seems to be maturing at a normal pace. As others said, add a few more fish. Feed fish and coral more. Dose neophos and neonitro if you need to. I had to double dose for multiple months when my tank was like yours. Weekly water changes. Stay the course with nitrates at 10 and phosphate. 05 to .1 so your corals don't starve to death.

 

[Mark-Stover]

Well, I had a major disaster. I decided to remove the mat of diatoms, algae and whatever else from the sand. Unfortunately, within an hour I noticed that my two spot bristle tooth tang was gasping. I quickly ran a test to see if ammonia had spiked. Nope, still zero. I quickly set up a QT system and moved the tang over. I also swapped out my carbon with new carbon. However, at that point one of my damsels started to show symptoms. I moved him over to QT as well, but it was of no use. I ended up losing all but my large scopas tang and one of my clowns. I‘m really at a loss to say what the cause was. It was as if the O2 was pulled out of the tank, or something in the sand poisoned them all. The only thing i can think of was the microbacter clean I had dosed a couple weeks ago. As shortly after doing that I lost my foxface with the same symptoms. I didn’t think that stuff could do something like this, but, I guess I’m wrong….or it was a total coincidence. I ran tests today and see nothing odd. I’ll take in a water sample to be tested tomorrow to see if I’m missing something. I feel like crap, and couldn’t sleep last night as my stupidity killed all these fish. Fortunately, all my coral are perfectly fine.…so, one good piece of news.

 

[Lavey29]

Well, I had a major disaster. I decided to remove the mat of diatoms, algae and whatever else from the sand. Unfortunately, within an hour I noticed that my two spot bristle tooth tang was gasping. I quickly ran a test to see if ammonia had spiked. Nope, still zero. I quickly set up a QT system and moved the tang over. I also swapped out my carbon with new carbon. However, at that point one of my damsels started to show symptoms. I moved him over to QT as well, but it was of no use. I ended up losing all but my large scopas tang and one of my clowns. I‘m really at a loss to say what the cause was. It was as if the O2 was pulled out of the tank, or something in the sand poisoned them all. The only thing i can think of was the microbacter clean I had dosed a couple weeks ago. As shortly after doing that I lost my foxface with the same symptoms. I didn’t think that stuff could do something like this, but, I guess I’m wrong….or it was a total coincidence. I ran tests today and see nothing odd. I’ll take in a water sample to be tested tomorrow to see if I’m missing something. I feel like crap, and couldn’t sleep last night as my stupidity killed all these fish. Fortunately, all my coral are perfectly fine.…so, one good piece of news.

There can be toxins in bacteria or algae but I doubt this was the cause if you were siphoning out during water change. If you removed to much sand though you remove nitrifying bacteria which can result in ammonia and 02 issues. This sounds more like disease perhaps triggered by fish stress as you were cleaning your tank?

 

[hunterallen40]

decided to remove the mat of diatoms, algae and whatever else from the sand.

This is unfortunately what likely caused your losses... When left undisturbed, anaerobic bacteria can build up in your sand. These bacteria produce, among other substances, hydrogen sulfide gas. This is unfortunately a highly toxic gas, and can definitely kill your fish in this way.

In the future, it's best to only clean sections of the sand bed at a time, unless you habitually clean all of it.

This is the same reason that, when transferring tanks, you really should replace the sand bed (or rinse the heck out of it).

Very sorry for your losses.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

This is unfortunately what likely caused your losses... When left undisturbed, anaerobic bacteria can build up in your sand. These bacteria produce, among other substances, hydrogen sulfide gas. This is unfortunately a highly toxic gas, and can definitely kill your fish in this way.

In the future, it's best to only clean sections of the sand bed at a time, unless you habitually clean all of it.

This is the same reason that, when transferring tanks, you really should replace the sand bed (or rinse the heck out of it).

Very sorry for your losses.

Daaaamg 5 months can be enough to cause this? Yikes, i was about to get a conch and have deliberately left everything my engineer goby doesn't dig, alone, about half the tank, so that I could get lofe going in the sand bed. Up against the glass beneath the surface it is very colerful reds/pinks. I should probably start turning it over a square inch a day huh.

I have a lot of microfauna that digs through it leaving it looking like an ant farm, but I am guessing that might not be enough.

 

[hunterallen40]

Daaaamg 5 months can be enough to cause this? Yikes, i was about to get a conch and have deliberately left everything my engineer goby doesn't dig, alone, about half the tank, so that I could get lofe going in the sand bed. Up against the glass beneath the surface it is very colerful reds/pinks. I should probably start turning it over a square inch a day huh.

I have a lot of microfauna that digs through it leaving it looking like an ant farm, but I am guessing that might not be enough.

I would not expect those guys to release enough gas to kill anything.

The real issue is turning over the whole sand bed in one go. Vacuuming, changing substrate, removing substrate... That's where the risk comes in.