Clean up crew special report.

[OceanDude]

I loved my urchin except for the fact that it would grab on to frags and carry them to various spots in the tank. Which resulted in many of my polyps disappearing and re appearing growing in the weirdest spots. Once I came home and the previous day I got some frags (still on plugs) and I got home and sure enough, it was carrying all 3 at the same time.

 

[twistedfinn967]

Thank you basile for this informative and useful thread!

 

[J77]

I haven't bought anykind of clean up crew for the last 4 years I have a ton of hitchhiker snails and hundreds of small brittle stars that do the job well I do have a kole tang he does a heck of a job keeping tank clean

 

[nawilson89]

So question about Urchins. I have a small pincushion urchin in my tank. I have a 30g tank with 2 hermits and 8 bumblebee snails on with one emerald crab (thats about it for my CuC). Can I add one more small Urchin?

 

[brocstrongo]

Where do you get babylonia snails and strawberry conches from? I don't think I see these often.

 

[basile]

My advice to anyone is to research research research. Make sure your clean up crew meets your specific needs. Some of the creatures listed have some drawbacks to them so research each species you are looking to add. If you have issues with snails killing over there might be other things going on in your tank. I noticed some times temperature is over looked and plays a big role in keeping crustations. I noticed ceriths and nas. will survive in cooler temps with more drastic temp swings, however turbo snails are more fragile to temp issues. In my opinion you should always add little by little even on the cleaning crew. This is because your tank will grow and change. Snails and conches will work great for the diatom bloom but the diatom bloom may only last a week if you added to many you may have to start feeding. Then you might run into a hair algae problem and find out that your snails wont even mess with hair algae. The whole point of a clean up crew is to get rid of unwanted algae and poo. Unwanted algae consumes nutrients in the tank, having to add food to your oversized clean up crew is only adding nutrients to system. Remember you are building an ecosystem, many factors will determine how your ecosystem grows and evolves.

By your , research research research you seem to imply that i haven't done mine ; that i just posted this after a coffe break. I've started my project june 2013 and put the cuc to work in dec 2013 and now this is my first conclusion on my choices of cuc. It does work. I didn't say at the begining of my thread stop using snails for any tank, i said that i chose that route for my own tank and why i did it. I didn't want to start a new religion . Your post is full of fear mungering and full of innacurasies. For instance the CONCH EATS MORE THAN 10 different algaes not only diatom, and its best quality is not even that. Its because he works the sand thats why you want him , not the algae eating, thats a bonus. As for the drawback well i can always count on people to point that out about anything it rare to see people pointing out the good side in something that is obvious here. I find you opinion to be one done after a coffe break and not one done after a serious reseach like i did. You may or may not have more experience than me but your post doesn't reflect one of someone who made a serious attempt at that. I DID MY reasearch , i know , where they come from ,what they eat, if and when they reproduce if its possible, their husbandry, life cycle , and compatibility charts. I did that for months. Then i chose. Mine works....for me, and i just wrote my observations in this thread.

 

[basile]

I loved my urchin except for the fact that it would grab on to frags and carry them to various spots in the tank. Which resulted in many of my polyps disappearing and re appearing growing in the weirdest spots. Once I came home and the previous day I got some frags (still on plugs) and I got home and sure enough, it was carrying all 3 at the same time.

Well this is one of their little vice you have to live if you want one. Its a choice you have to make. In my tank i don't want frags, i buy coral pieces, of a certain size, and if i buy a frag he doesn't remain loose for long he gets the epoxy treatment real quick. So for me its not an issue. So thats how i deal with it. Each animals has its life style. Its like anemone, they move and sting stuff in their wake . You have to deal with its , part of the tank . Urchins are voracious and should be only in tanks over 65 G because often they starve. One thing you can do to aleviate that is to give them this food; the urchins will sit on it for hours and satisfy itself and wont starve that way and be less incline to move stuff, lol. Forget abot the Black Hatpin long spine urchin they need a 150 G tank plus, they become really big. i have one in my 150 and its because i have a 75 g refugium that has ulva which it loves and my Ulva has recently migrated throught gravity into my Reef tank. So now my tang, Foxface, urchins can now dine on it. I've turned OFF my GFO so my macroalgaes are blooming and i get lots of it for my herbivores.

 

[basile]

Thank you basile for this informative and useful thread!

Your welcome , i don't know if it would work in every tank, lots of unknown and variables in this but it worked for me. Its one way of looking at your cuc, and its importance. You can try the same thing or variance of it just think of what you put in there and don't over do it. I started to think about that when i was seeing adds about buying things like 200 snails for my 150G . Adds like that made me sick!!! How many would die from starvation you think, and the guy at the other end making all that profit and those who of course criticise me for THINKING , about how not to waste my money on that kind of stupidity. So reading about inverts and what they do, how long they live , some can reproduce but thats when and only when you have a stable and flourishing tank, its not at the begining thats for sure. So theirs a few stage you go through before having a stable cuc. You do start with the normal cuc that wont last. a few months and gone.

 

[basile]

So question about Urchins. I have a small pincushion urchin in my tank. I have a 30g tank with 2 hermits and 8 bumblebee snails on with one emerald crab (thats about it for my CuC). Can I add one more small Urchin?

No , lol do you supplement your urchin with food, algae , nori or anything, because he'll eventually will loose his needles and die thats a very small tank for him. they eat a lot , but they don't do sand. You don't really have anything tha adress your sand in there. Nassarius snails would be good for detritus for your tank if you can get the Babylonia one i have posted at the beginning those are the best, for your tank 2 is enough. They'll clean up the sand of any detritus and scarps of food. Your tank is too small for a conch one per 50G about so and he would be in direct competition with your urchin, you see how it works, you need to think on how it will affect the other members of your tank. Bumblebee , i don't know why they still sell those they eat the micro fauna in your sand that makes it "live". I'd replace those with 10 cerith snails. My style wouldn't work for your size tank as i use big eaters see. And you already have one ...good luck .

 

[basile]

Where do you get babylonia snails and strawberry conches from? I don't think I see these often.

LFS have them usually ,but in my case i belong to a club and we have are group suppliers and back chanels lol. We can get anything we want, legally of course but its prime stocks, we don't go to LFS.

 

[nawilson89]

No , lol do you supplement your urchin with food, algae , nori or anything, because he'll eventually will loose his needles and die thats a very small tank for him. they eat a lot , but they don't do sand. You don't really have anything tha adress your sand in there. Nassarius snails would be good for detritus for your tank if you can get the Babylonia one i have posted at the beginning those are the best, for your tank 2 is enough. They'll clean up the sand of any detritus and scarps of food. Your tank is too small for a conch one per 50G about so and he would be in direct competition with your urchin, you see how it works, you need to think on how it will affect the other members of your tank. Bumblebee , i don't know why they still sell those they eat the micro fauna in your sand that makes it "live". I'd replace those with 10 cerith snails. My style wouldn't work for your size tank as i use big eaters see. And you already have one ...good luck .

I've had this urchin for about 8 months. I've never supplemented with anything, as for nassarius snails I actually have a few, just don't see em much.

 

[makingbubbles]

Basile I do believe you just take things neg. I never said you did anything wrong, for there is a hundred ways to skin a cat. This forum is for people to learn and get ideas. After being in the hobby since 2008 I have never stopped learning and realized I never will. I was just informing people to do there own research "obviously you did some research". Sorry for imposing on (your thread).

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

Add the crew after your cycle is over. Typically they are the first thing added.

Typically you are correct, and it's recommended by every LFS in my area, and couldn't be a worse time to add a C.U.C. In a newly cycled tank, what is there to eat? Little to nothing. All new tanks will go through an algae bloom (or more, depending how you set it up) with or without a C.U.C. Wait out the algae bloom(s), and add your C.U.C. after that as needed for your specific system.

 

[reefobsessed]

basile what would you suggest to use in a 45gal cube.

 

[Ginu]

Love the urchins, I have two in my 75 and I had some weird algae growing on the rocks... Was a constant battle and my Halloween urchin and tuxedo cleaned the rocks like no other.... I also use a sand dollar and have to admit, my sand is sparking clean. Don't even see the sand dollar at times, have to search for g him to make sure he's alive.

In not sure if the sand dollar damages the microorganisms in the sand, but he does a fine job cleaning and have had him forever. I actually stopped buying cuc for the past two years since I've had these guys.

Great writeup.

 

[basile]

Basile I do believe you just take things neg. I never said you did anything wrong, for there is a hundred ways to skin a cat. This forum is for people to learn and get ideas. After being in the hobby since 2008 I have never stopped learning and realized I never will. I was just informing people to do there own research "obviously you did some research". Sorry for imposing on (your thread).

Oh sorry i jumped the gun my appologies about that. I am a bit on the negative side lately ; on medical leave and i take things a bit too literal, sorry again

 

[basile]

basile what would you suggest to use in a 45gal cube.

Go with the traditional and stay away from urchins its too smal for them. If you stick with snail your good, but if you mix snails and hermiths; here what happens.....

Hermiths are like a gang, they work the snails and kill them one at a time while still doing their job until no snails are left. Then as they grow well they also want each others shell and battle over them like teenagers and kill each others until the bigest remains. New hobbyist don't notice this until the algaes are evrywhere and they don't know why but see all these empty shells laying around and think the snails died of natural causes , so they buy new snaisl and the biggest hermith get them again..

So chose the snails and resist the temptation to put hermits and crabs. OHHHH they'll tell you this one is reef safe, they're opportunist . 10 The trochus are the best for algaes, 8 t turbo or tiger Nassarius or 6 Babylonian snails for detritus, 1-2 brittle starfish for detritus as well, the night crew lol , you don't need a cucumber in your tank unless you put a lot of herbivores fishes that make a lot of waste. Stay away from the turbo mexican snails , curiously these snails are for cooler waters 79oF where most tanks are at 80 + you basically kill them slowly so they don't last very long. Plus they eat a lot and starve very quickly if their's no food. And a pain to turn over all the time..... cerith are excellent for your tank size if you go for 20 you'll have enough . One thing to do is when you clean your glass always leave one undone so they can have food. If your rock are filty clean all your glass panel so they can concentrate on your rocks and sand. For your sand a fighting or strawberry conch. Try one see if he can do the whole tank by himself. if he leaves a few patches untouch thats ood that means he has enough food , don't add another one. other wise you'll have to supplement with dry seeweeds. Its also depends what you have in your tank as rockwork, if you have a backwall lots of variables plays into this. One thing your fish can survive with a gravity of 1.021, but not your inverts, its 1.023, better keep your gravity at 1.024 even 1.025 to make sure.

 

[brocstrongo]

@basile ever notice if any of your crew go after cyano? I doubt it but wanted to go for a shot in the dark.

 

[basile]

Love the urchins, I have two in my 75 and I had some weird algae growing on the rocks... Was a constant battle and my Halloween urchin and tuxedo cleaned the rocks like no other.... I also use a sand dollar and have to admit, my sand is sparking clean. Don't even see the sand dollar at times, have to search for g him to make sure he's alive.

In not sure if the sand dollar damages the microorganisms in the sand, but he does a fine job cleaning and have had him forever. I actually stopped buying cuc for the past two years since I've had these guys.

Great writeup.

Hi , now i don't want to burst your bubble and if it works , if your system is still on its feet, great , but i just want you to be aware of it; this is an exerp from this article.https://www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/AnimalDetails.aspx?enc=Z5SIVkZ+n+VfIl75Mb+zkw==

Its not critical, but the plankton your amphipods would eat and the amphipods , your fish and other inhabitant of your tank would benefit from are being eaten by the sand dollar. If he was taking microalgaes like cyanos or diatom. But your system seem fine with it so everything is cool. Just remember if you want a manderin fish, they'll be in direct competition. Thats a reason to know what your cleaning crew does. In this case , your sand dollard is not part of the cuc , he moves the sand thats good, its very good it areate the sand. But he's growing too be aware of his demand too. No idea of his species and how big too lol. Good luck .

[h=2]Natural History[/h]The familiar exoskeleton (test) of a sand dollar—often found cast up on a beach—is white, with an obvious five-pointed shape on the back. But a live sand dollar has a different look. Densely packed, tiny, dark purple spines cover live sand dollars and hide the star design.

In their sandy seafloor habitat, sand dollars use their fuzzy spines, aided by tiny hairs (cilia), to ferry food particles along their bodies to a central mouth on their bottom side. They capture plankton with spines and pincers (pedicellariae) on their body surfaces. A tiny teepee-shaped cone of spines bunched up on a sand dollar’s body marks a spot where captive amphipods or crab larvae are being held for transport to the mouth. Unlike sea stars that use tube feet for locomotion, sand dollars use their spines to move along the sand, or to drive edgewise into the sand. On the upper half of the sand dollar’s body, spines also serve as gills.

In quiet waters, these flattened animals stand on end, partially buried in the sand. When waters are rough, sand dollars hold their ground by lying flat—or burrowing under. In fast-moving waters, adults also fight the currents by growing heavier skeletons. Young sand dollars swallow heavy sand grains to weigh themselves down.

 

[basile]

@basile ever notice if any of your crew go after cyano? I doubt it but wanted to go for a shot in the dark.

This is the best answer i got ;

Browse Species in Slime Algae