Close to quitting, what’s up now

[SeaDweller]

Ahh... I guess I’m not the only one who experienced “greyed” out SPS. I literally woke up one morning a couple years ago to my colonies looking “grey” and then they slowly peeled away, some just TNed but the “grey” was pretty distinct to me.

Anyway, in my case I feel it was because my RODI wasn’t shutting off, so my filters were depleting quicker than I knew. So I was probably pumping in underfiltered water as my top off and WC water. So I feel for my crash and “greyed” out sps, it was water contamination.

I’d suspect your NSW might not be super clean. I used to use NSW before I made my own, and I don’t chance it anymore now that Mexico has been pumping sewage up the coast into San Diego. No thanks! Your PO4 May be a tad high, but also could be from the die off in your tank, I suppose?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I see suggestions of lower and raise. While true, it all has to be done gradually- there is nothing fast when it comes to saltwater.
I would test the seawater that is going into your tank to assure no contaminants being introduced as you add water.
Yes- salinity to 1.026. water flow sounds like it can be increased and some flow added to surface to break up the buildup you describe.
Light should be moderate high in blue and a huge water change is likely in order.

 

[serwobow]

I have also had an SPS die off that sounded a lot like yours, with 90% of my acros and montis dying over about 2 months, and some of the LPS and softies seeming to just cruise right through. About 80% of my corals died completely, but some survived, and those slowly started to recover after about 2 months after the crash. All the major parameters (salinity, alk, Ca, Mg, phos, Nitrate) were normal throughout the crash. Never figured out the problem. Eventually, performing regular water changes, running carbon and GFO (I read somewhere it can also deplete some heavy metals), the remaining corals recovered. I never figured out what the cause was (bad batch of water? dying organism? powerhead leaching metals?). If you continue good husbandry, I think that the problem will eventually start to resolve. In the meantime, look on the bright side - a crash brings a new opportunity to get all the corals you really wanted but previously didn't have the room for in your tank!

 

[MnFish1]

there is nothing fast when it comes to saltwater.

I would humbly suggest that this is a silly statement - despite that it is the holy grail here:

1. If a fish has velvet - it makes sense to QUICKLY move it to treatment tank
2. I there is a malfunction in a tank such that parameters are widely off - it makes sense to quickly move them back.
3. Many other examples fail me at this second - but there are many - its a stupid generalization *no offense to the originator of the generalization - but I'm tired and tired of the 'truism'

 

[vetteguy53081]

I would humbly suggest that this is a silly statement - despite that it is the holy grail here:

1. If a fish has velvet - it makes sense to QUICKLY move it to treatment tank
2. I there is a malfunction in a tank such that parameters are widely off - it makes sense to quickly move them back.
3. Many other examples fail me at this second - but there are many - its a stupid generalization *no offense to the originator of the generalization - but I'm tired and tired of the 'truism'

Ever hear of shocking your system? This is the result of quickly moving anything. no different than chasing numbers. Negative results will be in place from such actions.
Im Not suggesting to raise levels over a week, but not in an hour either.
This past Wednesday, I did a salinity check as Apex probe is never accurate and my 93 cube was at 1.023. I made a 1/2 gallon of water at 1.029. I added a cup every 4 hours and just added remaining about 10 mins ago and tank is now at 1.026. I would not dare have thrown the entire contents in at once.

 

[Smarkow]

Salinity 1.025 Raise to 1.026
Calcium 380 Raise to 420
Ph 7.7 Work on getting this up to 7.9
Potassium 370 Raise to to 400
Nitrate 30 Lower to 10 or less
Magnesium 1200 Raise to 1400
Iron 0,01mg/l at most!
Phosphate 0.2 Lower to .10ppm or less
Alk 7.7 Shoot for 7.0-7.5 dkh

This is good advice. I would recommend calibrating your refractometer, then raising the salinity first, and finally retesting these other parameters before correcting.

 

[Smarkow]

Ever hear of shocking your system? This is the result of quickly moving anything. no different than chasing numbers. Negative results will be in place from such actions.
Im Not suggesting to raise levels over a week, but not in an hour either.
This past Wednesday, I did a salinity check as Apex probe is never accurate and my 93 cube was at 1.023. I made a 1/2 gallon of water at 1.029. I added a cup every 4 hours and just added remaining about 10 mins ago and tank is now at 1.026. I would not dare have thrown the entire contents in at once.

Okay so thank you for putting a time frame on this. Bc I feel like if this were the kind of thing where you noticed “burnt tip” but otherwise healthy acros and tested your alk and found it was 12 you would correct that in a week. Similarly OP notes coral death but slightly lower parameters.. correcting over an hour might further stress them? So what is the sweet spot!?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay so thank you for putting a time frame on this. Bc I feel like if this were the kind of thing where you noticed “burnt tip” but otherwise healthy acros and tested your alk and found it was 12 you would correct that in a week. Similarly OP notes coral death but slightly lower parameters.. correcting over an hour might further stress them? So what is the sweet spot!?

Depending upon quantity and need. If it is significant, you want to gradually raise or lower.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My irons almost undetectable and potassium low, could this be the cause and is the bacteria from carbon dosing to blame. Nitrate and phos are really high this week for no obvious reason.....I literally thinking of switching back to fresh!

Iron in natural seawater is never detectable by kit, and usually not by hobby ICP either. It is very low. I doubt it is causing any deaths.

The potassium is also not low enough to cause deaths, but it is OK to boost it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yeah that’s gone low as well. I’ve even got mag chips in the calcium reactor, but fat lot of good it’s doing.

I’m going to do a bunch of water changes to get everything back in line, but I just can’t work out why mag, iron, potassium are depleting in comparison to usual. Plus I still can’t work out why my NoPox don’t work and just leaves snot all over my tank, blocks the pump, sump and overflows. It’s not dino or cyano, it’s def linked to NoPox. It’s like 2am in the morning and I can’t sleep thinking about it!

While your magnesium is not low enough to cause deaths, magnesium in a reactor is never a suitable way to boost magnesium significantly.

I discuss it here:


http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php#10

It has been suggested that adding dolomite to CaCO3/CO2 reactors can help with magnesium problems. Dolomite is a material that contains both magnesium and calcium carbonate. If dolomite is added to the reactor to maintain existing appropriate magnesium levels against their continual depletion via calcification (for example, if the calcium carbonate used is too low in magnesium to maintain adequate magnesium), then this is a fine approach. Aquarists might typically use on the order of 10% of the media as dolomite (and 90% as calcium carbonate).

However, this method is unsuitable if the goal is to raise magnesium levels. The problem is that for every magnesium ion released from the dolomite, two units of alkalinity are also released:

MgCO3 à Mg++ + CO3--

Consequently, raising magnesium in this way by 100 ppm will necessarily raise the alkalinity by 8.2 meq/L (23 dKH). The only way around this problem is to add a mineral acid (not vinegar) to the aquarium to reduce the alkalinity, and that may be more problematic than just adding a magnesium supplement in the first place.

 

[Cell]

Could it be that the quality of your NSW source is degrading? Maybe switch to a controlled mix for a bit and see if it helps. This would be a quick and easy fix if so.

 

[BryanD]

pH way to low, not sure how anyone would consider that OK. Combined with a somewhat low alkalinity, that could be your problem. SPS need the higher pH and the alkalinity higher to make their skeletons. Somewhat apples to oranges, but I have a freshwater tank with a pH of around 7.4, and you can see it gradually dissolve a dead snails shell that was on the gravel. SPS are not going to be happy at 7.7.

 

[vetteguy53081]

pH way to low, not sure how anyone would consider that OK. Combined with a somewhat low alkalinity, that could be your problem. SPS need the higher pH and the alkalinity higher to make their skeletons. Somewhat apples to oranges, but I have a freshwater tank with a pH of around 7.4, and you can see it gradually dissolve a dead snails shell that was on the gravel. SPS are not going to be happy at 7.7.

This is Not freshwater, While ph in the range of 8.2 -8.4 is preferred, it is Not essential as STABILITY is essential. I maintain which is my best without chasing numbers and buffering 7.87 Ph and my sps grow well and great color. I have even rescued half dead SPS and revived most of them.
Our parameters such as calcium and magnesium are targets- Not requirements as long as they remain constant and water flow, Par etc remain constant. 31+ years doing this and know many who are in my situation with slightly lower numbers and have gorgeous tanks.
I will be acquiring the Neptune trident for my newest tank in hopes to elevate my current levels in the 360g but I will also NOT chase and force my tank to achieve any given values. I generally allow my fish and corals to talk to me, as if they're not happy, I test and make slight changes accordingly.

 

[blasterman]

Montipora, especially caps are insanely sensitive to biological warfare. I've had friends with > 100gal tanks lose massive colonies of monti caps within 48 hours simply because they introduced a rock with the wrong type of palythoa on it. They might as well have dumped a bottle of bleach in the tank.

Caps are also very sensitive to sudden alk climbs and temp drops, but I don't think this is the case here. If we suspect a contaminant in NSW, and I suspect it's something on a biological and not element level why don't we do a big water change with non NSW?

 

[blasterman]

This is Not freshwater, While ph in the range of 8.2 -8.4 is preferred, it is Not essential as STABILITY is essential. I maintain which is my best without chasing numbers and buffering 7.87 Ph and my sps grow well and great color. I have even rescued half dead SPS and revived most of them.
Our parameters such as calcium and magnesium are targets- Not requirements as long as they remain constant and water flow, Par etc remain constant. 31+ years doing this and know many who are in my situation with slightly lower numbers and have gorgeous tanks.
I will be acquiring the Neptune trident for my newest tank in hopes to elevate my current levels in the 360g but I will also NOT chase and force my tank to achieve any given values. I generally allow my fish and corals to talk to me, as if they're not happy, I test and make slight changes accordingly.

Thank you. Sick of these parameter based responses that have nothing to do with the problem. These are corals...not programming a stupid router.

 

[MnFish1]

pH way to low, not sure how anyone would consider that OK. Combined with a somewhat low alkalinity, that could be your problem. SPS need the higher pH and the alkalinity higher to make their skeletons. Somewhat apples to oranges, but I have a freshwater tank with a pH of around 7.4, and you can see it gradually dissolve a dead snails shell that was on the gravel. SPS are not going to be happy at 7.7.

pH varies from time of day may be 7.7 at the lowest - 8.1 at the highest - its one measurement with a margin of error. The pH of my tank varies from 7.8 to 8.1 and I have plenty of SPS growth. Its much more about alkalinity stability (and Ca) than the actual value (within reason)

 

[MnFish1]

Ever hear of shocking your system? This is the result of quickly moving anything. no different than chasing numbers. Negative results will be in place from such actions.
Im Not suggesting to raise levels over a week, but not in an hour either.
This past Wednesday, I did a salinity check as Apex probe is never accurate and my 93 cube was at 1.023. I made a 1/2 gallon of water at 1.029. I added a cup every 4 hours and just added remaining about 10 mins ago and tank is now at 1.026. I would not dare have thrown the entire contents in at once.

It wasn't about your post . I just hate the saying. - nothing you're saying here is incorrect IMO.